C2 ? C3 ? or comment ?

Did an EICR yesterday ....

Incoming looped supply comes from next door:



and the main earth goes from the looped head to the house I was inspecting:



So I've been pondering which code to use,

C2 because the house next door could disconnect the main earth - but how likely is that?

C3 because it doesn't meet the current regs

or just a comment

and as for remedial work I suppose I could just attach the main earth to the head in the property I was inspecting!



Both homes are rental both owned by "related" people so I'm guessing the spark who rewired the properties in the late 80's did both - but why did he run the main earth through to next door?

Thoughts all

Thanks

My first comment is in any other circumstance you would not have got to look at what was next door, you would just be testing what you are presented with and able to see in the property you are testing.

At least C3 for substandard meter tails, I would probably be reporting them to the DNO as "dangerous" to try and get them out and replace them quickly.  Especially those bits of string into the time clock.

EDIT: I am unclear which of those pictures was the house you were testing, and which was next door?

Murdoch said:

and as for remedial work I suppose I could just attach the main earth to the head in the property I was inspecting! 

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Hmm, not sure about that, the supply to the first house looks to be TNS/SNE, the loop looks like it could be straight concentric taking L+N through, If you were to put the earth in the head at the furthest property you have effectivly made it TNCS when PME might not be available, and there might be shared metalic servcies, etc

I would report head as dangerous to DNO and get them to sort out both heads and maybe you will get a proper earth  (or not as they sometimes don't supply an earth) .

ProDave said:

EDIT: I am unclear which of those pictures was the house you were testing, and which was next door?

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1st picture is next door 

2nd and 3rd were the house I was doing the EICR on

the tails to the time clock are irrelevent as there is nothing connected to the load side 

Phoenix said:

Hmm, not sure about that, the supply to the first house looks to be TNS/SNE, the loop looks like it could be straight concentric taking L+N through, If you were to put the earth in the head at the furthest property you have effectivly made it TNCS when PME might not be available, and there might be shared metalic servcies, etc

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me neither

nobody gets taught this stuff that we find in the real world at the coal face

We have the daft situation that we are supposed to pass comment on something we cannot fix ourselves and have little influence over.  What if you give it a C2, which fails the installation, report it to the DNO as dangerous, and they come and say it is fine and do nothing?  You would then i guess be obliged to re rate it as a C3 as "a higher authority" has declared it safe.

My own view is you are testing this house.  You are presented with a supply and earth appearing through the wall, from a property you do not necessarily have access to.  You can guess it is TNS, you can be sure it is not TNCS. You would not normally get to see what is next door and whether or not it is open to being tampered with.  So I would judge it on the condition of what I can see in the property I am testing.

cant code it - DNO's equipment is specifically excluded from BS7671 in its scope. at best you could make a note / call DNO

Andy™ said:

cant code it - DNO's equipment is specifically excluded from BS7671 in its scope. at best you could make a note / call DNO

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To expand on Andy's comment, I would take the view that you have NO knowledge or access to what is or isn't connected next door...

Guidance note 3, Pg 94 suggests visual inspection of intake equipment as this is the DNO's property..

including, service cable, service head, "distributors earthing arrangement"... 

This is the part where your inspection hits the buffers..

You need the DNO to confirm what the earthing arrangement is for the property as you have no visual indication to identify what it is or isn't..

(could technically be a TT as there is only a L & N at the cut out, no sign of any traditional distributors earth arrangement)..

Once you know what supply earth type the DNO consider it to be..

you can then take any appropriate actions, recommendations, evaluations as to the integrity of the rest of the installation....

Guinness    

Agree in normal conditions you wouldn't have seen what was next door, but now you know what's next door and although it's unlikely, there's a chance that the earth could at best be temporarily disconnected, or worse disconnected permanently. You would hope that any decent spark wouldn't disconnect without first establishing what it is doing but we all know that in the real world anything could happen. 

You could FI it and refer to the DNO.

I'd C2 just to cover yourself if nothing else. 

boltonsparky said:

You could FI it and refer to the DNO.

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That would be my choice

Personally I would have called the DNO while I was on site as it saves on all the follow up calls to / from the customer or DNO clarifying the issue that you have mentioned on the report

boltonsparky said:

You could FI it and refer to the DNO.

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but the FI would render the EICR unsatisfactory with no way for a competent spark to rectify the issue ..........

so that’s not really an option imho

Murdoch said:

but the FI would render the EICR unsatisfactory with no way for a competent spark to rectify the issue ..........

so that’s not really an option imho

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Not quite following your point here, you have aired concerns about an installation but now want to downgrade the issue you found

How would any spark rectify what is essentially a DNO problem unless they pick up the phone

really sounds like you are under a bit of pressure to give a satisfactory EICR

UNG said:

Not quite following your point here, you have aired concerns about an installation but now want to downgrade the issue you found

How would any spark rectify what is essentially a DNO problem unless they pick up the phone

really sounds like you are under a bit of pressure to give a satisfactory EICR

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The site is getting an unsatisfactory EICR but its the fact that giving a FI or C2 for this earthing arrangement puts the resolution out of reach for a standard spark .....

Its having to deal with 2 sets of landlords and tenants .........