Wiring issues with ceiling rose

I am replacing a few ceiling roses in my son's terrace house. The one on the landing is the one I'm struggling with, as (I think this is the main ring for the upstairs lighting) What's confusing is that there are 4 red wires rather than 3. One of these red wires has a black plastic coating (underneath the red sleeve) . Should this 'extra' one be connected adjacent to one of the other red wires, in one hole. Or should it be fed into a live or neutral hole? There are 3 neutral wires and 2 earth wires. Assistance/guidance would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance 

It is probably the switch line return can you show a picture. 

The red sleeved one should be on its own next to the three red, at a best guess. 

Sharpend said:

The red sleeved one should be on its own next to the three red, at a best guess. 

Click to expand...

No good guessing we need a picture to give accurate advise.

Fleeting said:

No good guessing we need a picture to give accurate advise.

Click to expand...

Thanks.. Here's 

a URL for the image - 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Pqu7__gmLUT-JoBDBvAORdi2-EQN0G36/view?usp=drivesdk

I forgot to say there is also a separate brown live wire which I've taped at the end, visible at the top of the photo) So all a bit confusing! Thanks in advance 

I would say the 3 PLAIN reds join together in the LOOP terminal.

the 2 plain blacks into N and to the N of the light fitting.

The Black with the red sleeving is switched L to the L terminal to the light.

That will get the original wiring working and the light working.

THEN you need to determine what is the brown and blue that has been added?  Is it a feed to another light?  Is it a feed to a bathroom fan?  Depending what it is, it might want permanent L, switched L or something else.  you may have to get up in the loft and physically follow it to see what it goes to.

Which brings the often repeated point PHOTOGRAPH and DOCUMENT everything BEFORE you remove the old light fitting.

The brown / blue must also have an earth. ( It's not clear if that's the stray one in the picture)

Geoff1946 said:

The brown / blue must also have an earth. ( It's not clear if that's the stray one in the picture)

Click to expand...

It would have but would not be the first time some cowboy decided it was not needed......

ProDave said:

I would say the 3 PLAIN reds join together in the LOOP terminal.

the 2 plain blacks into N and to the N of the light fitting.

The Black with the red sleeving is switched L to the L terminal to the light.

That will get the original wiring working and the light working.

THEN you need to determine what is the brown and blue that has been added?  Is it a feed to another light?  Is it a feed to a bathroom fan?  Depending what it is, it might want permanent L, switched L or something else.  you may have to get up in the loft and physically follow it to see what it goes to.

Which brings the often repeated point PHOTOGRAPH and DOCUMENT everything BEFORE you remove the old light fitting.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your response. I did take a 'before' photo of the wiring which I've attached herewith, which I forgot to add earlier though I'm not too sure if it helps or not!. Here's the url link... 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Pw5RsdZff0JIIhpvCpsIUKvjfzrt2MTq/view?usp=drivesdk

Thanks in advance! 

That link does not work, it asks me to sign in to google (It will be a cold day in hell before I sign up to anything google)

ProDave said:

That link does not work, it asks me to sign in to google (It will be a cold day in hell before I sign up to anything google)

Click to expand...

Ha ha! It's not user friendly to say the least is it. Hope this works... 

Looks like the errant brown and blue is to feed another light/fan? From same switch

It's unclear if the brown is going into the loop (permanent L) or switched L.  I suspect Loop so a permanent L feeding fan? Shaver socket? mirror light (with switch) who know what else.

If it was done by a DIY bodger it probably feeds a 13A socket in the loft without an earth.

Thanks guys

kerching said:

Looks like the errant brown and blue is to feed another light/fan? From same switch

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Yes, there is an extractor fan in the bathroom. I'm still a bit muddled so thought I'd try and clarify the wiring presenting from the ceiling:

1) 4 x red, one of which slides up and reveals black casing underneath it

2) 1x separate brown wire

3) 2 x black 

4) 1x blue

5) 2 x yellow/green (earth) 

With 2 sets of 3 junctions/holes on the new light fitting (for the neutral and loop wires ) and 1 set of  2 (for the live) and  separate earth connector, where should I connect the additional red and black wire? Does it go in one of the loop holes, or one of the live holes (so 2 wires in one hole) Also should both the earth wires be fed into the earth junction? 

As I'm sure you will have gathered by now, I'm a bit of a novice at this so any help will be much appreciated! 

Thanks again 

I suspect you have four bare cpcs (earths) if you remove the green/yellow sleeving. The black with the red sleeve goes to the brown of the flex, the side with two terminals. The remaining three reds into the centre "loop" terminal and the blacks to neutral with the blue of the flex. It is not clear from the picture where the brown of the newer cable goes but blue is almost certainly neutral.

Fleeting said:

I suspect you have four bare cpcs (earths) if you remove the green/yellow sleeving. The black with the red sleeve goes to the brown of the flex, the side with two terminals. The remaining three reds into the centre "loop" terminal and the blacks to neutral with the blue of the flex. It is not clear from the picture where the brown of the newer cable goes but blue is almost certainly neutral.

Click to expand...

Thanks