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Cath McK

Lights in my house keep tripping - advice please

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Andy™
21 minutes ago, Cath McK said:

Yes the fault finding has all been paid (🙈) I sent today asking for detailed list of what fault finding was carried out and results, as all I’d received was invoice for ‘fault finding’. This is coming from a company with glowing reviews and prof website, this was also the ones who told me junction box was dangerous ‘never seen anything like it in 20 years’ they were 2 hours late and were here for less than 10 mins saying they’d quote me for 2 men x 8 hours shift - I’m disgusted really. 

 

2 men 8 hours to find a fault...

 

pretty much any fault in a house can have a good idea what the fault is, where is likely to be, and often either fixed, temp repair or isolated within an hour, 2 hours max. yes, some are a lot more awkward, especially with wiring like yours, but still, its not really all that hard. id expect the same would apply for most electricians

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Sharpend

@ProDave might know of any redress, aren’t the rules a little tighter up there? 

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Murdoch
54 minutes ago, Cath McK said:

Been told now I need a company with a ‘megger’ that will identify where the fault is rather than having to damage my newly plastered walls. Honestly, can you believe this carry on? I’m trying to get my head around why this is so hard to fix? 

 

you should forget all the muppets you've spoken to and had in your home so far

 

Ask your friends and neighbours for recommendations for a local spark

 

 

AND if anyone who says that they don't have a "megger" or proper test kit - tell them to go away, because this is one of the most important bits of kit we need and use

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Cath McK
54 minutes ago, Cath McK said:

Been told now I need a company with a ‘megger’ that will identify where the fault is rather than having to damage my newly plastered walls. Honestly, can you believe this carry on? I’m trying to get my head around why this is so hard to fix? 
 

I have a semi logical brain, a permanent marker, some paper and a pen...now where can I get my hands on a test kit? 😫

Is it possible that a fault really is so hard to find? Spoke to previous owner of flat who said only electrical problem she had was the guy fitting electric shower (it used to have a switch on fuse board) but is disconnected now, apparently he’d had problems and left a hole in ceiling where wires went through and told her not to cover it up. Company who refurbished this flat covered it up. I’ve mentioned this to the electricians but they’ve all said no that wouldn’t cause the lights to fuse but the thud when the lights go out sounds as if it comes from above bathroom ceiling. Is that possible or am I overthinking/distraught?

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Murdoch
10 minutes ago, Cath McK said:

Is it possible that a fault really is so hard to find? Spoke to previous owner of flat who said only electrical problem she had was the guy fitting electric shower (it used to have a switch on fuse board) but is disconnected now, apparently he’d had problems and left a hole in ceiling where wires went through and told her not to cover it up. Company who refurbished this flat covered it up. I’ve mentioned this to the electricians but they’ve all said no that wouldn’t cause the lights to fuse but the thud when the lights go out sounds as if it comes from above bathroom ceiling. Is that possible or am I overthinking/distraught?

 

Just make sure you tell the next spark what you've heard, seen and experienced. Intermittent faults can be tough to locate

 

A good few years ago I was asked to investigate nuisance tripping of an RCD - because the house was surrounded by woodland I asked if they ever had mice and if they have noticed any electrical "gremlins" - a resounding no to both. 1.5 days later I found in the loft void above the ground floor bathroom a gnawed through copper core of a cable. 

 

When I told them what I'd found and where - she said - oh yes , we always have mice up their and he said - yes the bathroom light has been playing up. 

 

If they had told me this when I arrived their bill would almost certainly have been much smaller.

Edited by Murdoch

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Andy™
1 hour ago, Murdoch said:

 

 

If they had told me this when I arrived their bill would almost certainly have been much smaller.

 

had similar many times - often its after theyve done DIY though and done it wrong. instead of saying what theyve done, they deny all knowledge so instead of going straight to the problem, you have to waste time looking for it first

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ProDave
2 hours ago, Murdoch said:

One thing about this style of wiring is that once the box of connections is located , fault finding is so easy ....

 

And when you have taken 2 hours to locate the damned junction box, leave a note by the CU for the next electrician.

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ProDave

Ah customers not telling you things.

 

Classic one for me, lights tripping, "have you had any work done?"  "no"

 

An hour later I tracked it down to a run of cable above the kitchen ceiling.  THEN the customer said "oh we had the flat roof repaired last week"

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Cath McK
7 minutes ago, Murdoch said:

 

you should forget all the muppets you've spoken to and had in your home so far

 

Ask your friends and neighbours for recommendations for a local spark

 

 

AND if anyone who says that they don't have a "megger" or proper test kit - tell them to go away, because this is one of the most important bits of kit we need and use

 

29 minutes ago, Andy™ said:

 

had similar many times - often its after theyve done DIY though and done it wrong. instead of saying what theyve done, they deny all knowledge so instead of going straight to the problem, you have to waste time looking for it first

Yes I was asked that but the only thing I’d done was put a curtain behind door in hallway but he looked at it and laughed saying he was amazed the rail was up cos I hadn’t put screws in far - I do have a cat who goes outdoors (has a cat flap) and I have searched the house for signs of mice 🐭 not seen any yet but not ruling it out 

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Cath McK
16 minutes ago, ProDave said:

And when you have taken 2 hours to locate the damned junction box, leave a note by the CU for the next electrician.

We had a nightmare last week trying to figure out where junction box might be (or the cables/wires) as the only thing we could see was two fine squiggles in pencil. We were fortunate that it was under one of those because we were going to start at other end. The boards were nailed down (chipboard) rather than screwed down, which would’ve made more sense,  so we had to burst them  to get them up (sawed across middle cos they went full length of room). Joiner did good job of splitting them into smaller panels and screwing them in for easier access. Then marked out where the cables and junction box were with a black sharpie for next people. Pity those who put the floor down hadn’t thought to do that - a couple of minutes could save so much hassle and cash

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Cath McK
2 hours ago, Murdoch said:

 

you should forget all the muppets you've spoken to and had in your home so far

 

Ask your friends and neighbours for recommendations for a local spark

 

 

AND if anyone who says that they don't have a "megger" or proper test kit - tell them to go away, because this is one of the most important bits of kit we need and use

Yes I’ll do that, he obviously knew I wouldn’t know what a megger was. To be honest I think Glasgow has a great shortage of tradesmen so they’re choosing what jobs they want which is awful if you have a job that’s tricky but needs done. I’ve heard a few complaints of that nature, we’re needing an influx of good tradesmen - took 9 weeks to get a joiner to do the floor and my friend has been waiting months to get window locks fixed. Not sure what it’s like in rest of UK 

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Cath McK
7 hours ago, Sharpend said:

An insulation test is a means to establishing the integrity of the cables, a poor reading is interpreted as; a breakdown of the insulation, poor termination, damp ingress, etc to name a few.

A continuity test determines whether a core is continuous from one end to the other. 
 

using both tests will narrow down where the fault lies. Then it can be remedied. 
 

this is basic fault finding and any decent spark should be utilising these methods to determine why and where this type of fault occurs. 

Thanks for explaining this

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SPECIAL LOCATION
6 hours ago, Cath McK said:

This is coming from a company with glowing reviews and prof website, this was also the ones who told me junction box was dangerous ‘never seen anything like it in 20 years’ they were 2 hours late and were here for less than 10 mins saying they’d quote me for 2 men x 8 hours shift - I’m disgusted really. 

 

Unfortunately it is poor unsuspecting customers like yourself who are pretty much left between a rock and a hard place when trying to find decent tradespersons..

There is the modern trend for websites offering "vetted tradespersons" for customers to use to get jobs done..

 

BUT..

what they don't tell you is 99.99% are a service that the tradesperson has to pay to join, as a vehicle for advertising to get more work..

 

So..

its free for the customer to search..

but the traders have to pay an annual subscription and often have to pay to get the full details of prospective jobs..

and/or pay some commission for jobs gained via the website..

 

This is how the "tradesperson search website" makes its money..

So there is IMHO a bit of a conflict of interest..

as they are not really independent if a particular tradesperson has a poor review..

when that very same tradesperson is paying towards their costs and profits!!!

 

At the end of the day, where ever possible, the good old "Word Of Mouth" recommendation is still the best option to use..

 

Also..

If you are a good or above average tradesperson.. 

you don't need to go giving some of your hard-earned money to any third party "we-check-your-trusted-traders.com.uk.scam" website,

to try and get a few extra jobs...

As word of mouth recommendations can soon fill your diary..

 

So those who have paid to be on these sort of websites could be new-starters....

or businesses struggling to get work for one reason or another!? :C  (but that's just my hunch)

 

Around here..  (down in the Midlands..  {too far to be able to help you out unfortunately})..

There are a few internet social media neighbourhood sites..

things like  https://nextdoor.co.uk

and local Facebook pages..

 

where people living in your local area often ask for traders to do all sorts..

Plastering / Car MOT's / Garden landscape / Plumbing / Electrical / etc.. etc.. etc..

 

(I have had my name recommended numerous times via these types of platform...

Its free and genuinely independent..

as no one makes any money either way from recommending or not!!

Just a good neighbour trying to help others locally).

 

If you are not on any local to you, it may be a useful exercise to log-on and ask around locally for a good electrician.

 

6 hours ago, Cath McK said:

Been told now I need a company with a ‘megger’ that will identify where the fault is

 

Just to clarify..   you need someone with an "Insulation Resistance Tester"...

a "megger" is a brand name which has been generically used within the trade in a similar way that many people ask for the Sellotape..

when they actual use "clear adhesive tape".

 

Every competent electrician charging money for doing work..  should have access to an Insulation Resistance Tester..

it is not an unusual or specialist bit of kit..    Just part of the bog-standard tool kit of any half decent electrician.

 

You really do appear to be drawing the short-straw on every attempt to resolve your problem.. :o:(

Sometimes a fault cannot be identified or fixed on the first visit..

 

BUT..

If I'd been fault investigating and not resolved a problem..

along with my invoice would be an accompanying letter/e-mail..

confirming what I have done so far.. 

What I have found, (proved/disproved)..

What I would recommend as the next course of action to assist resolving the problem.

 

An invoice without any explanation of what it refers to very poor business practice in my book!

 

Guinness 

Edited by SPECIAL LOCATION

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Cath McK
1 hour ago, SPECIAL LOCATION said:

 

Unfortunately it is poor unsuspecting customers like yourself who are pretty much left between a rock and a hard place when trying to find decent tradespersons..

There is the modern trend for websites offering "vetted tradespersons" for customers to use to get jobs done..

 

BUT..

what they don't tell you is 99.99% are a service that the tradesperson has to pay to join, as a vehicle for advertising to get more work..

 

So..

its free for the customer to search..

but the traders have to pay an annual subscription and often have to pay to get the full details of prospective jobs..

and/or pay some commission for jobs gained via the website..

 

This is how the "tradesperson search website" makes its money..

So there is IMHO a bit of a conflict of interest..

as they are not really independent if a particular tradesperson has a poor review..

when that very same tradesperson is paying towards their costs and profits!!!

 

At the end of the day, where ever possible, the good old "Word Of Mouth" recommendation is still the best option to use..

 

Also..

If you are a good or above average tradesperson.. 

you don't need to go giving some of your hard-earned money to any third party "we-check-your-trusted-traders.com.uk.scam" website,

to try and get a few extra jobs...

As word of mouth recommendations can soon fill your diary..

 

So those who have paid to be on these sort of websites could be new-starters....

or businesses struggling to get work for one reason or another!? :C  (but that's just my hunch)

 

Around here..  (down in the Midlands..  {too far to be able to help you out unfortunately})..

There are a few internet social media neighbourhood sites..

things like  https://nextdoor.co.uk

and local Facebook pages..

 

where people living in your local area often ask for traders to do all sorts..

Plastering / Car MOT's / Garden landscape / Plumbing / Electrical / etc.. etc.. etc..

 

(I have had my name recommended numerous times via these types of platform...

Its free and genuinely independent..

as no one makes any money either way from recommending or not!!

Just a good neighbour trying to help others locally).

 

If you are not on any local to you, it may be a useful exercise to log-on and ask around locally for a good electrician.

 

 

Just to clarify..   you need someone with an "Insulation Resistance Tester"...

a "megger" is a brand name which has been generically used within the trade in a similar way that many people ask for the Sellotape..

when they actual use "clear adhesive tape".

 

Every competent electrician charging money for doing work..  should have access to an Insulation Resistance Tester..

it is not an unusual or specialist bit of kit..    Just part of the bog-standard tool kit of any half decent electrician.

 

You really do appear to be drawing the short-straw on every attempt to resolve your problem.. :o:(

Sometimes a fault cannot be identified or fixed on the first visit..

 

BUT..

If I'd been fault investigating and not resolved a problem..

along with my invoice would be an accompanying letter/e-mail..

confirming what I have done so far.. 

What I have found, (proved/disproved)..

What I would recommend as the next course of action to assist resolving the problem.

 

An invoice with any explanation of what it refers to very poor business practice in my book!

 

Guinness 

Thanks for this, I didn’t know about these local groups and will try them out. I know what you mean about the rated people type sites, they have great reviews and you call and they tell you they’ll be up Monday morning at 9am and you’ve cleared the space for them, taken the time off work (another day off your annual leave) and wait. At 10am you text and ask if they’re on their way and by 10.30 am (used to be 11.30) you click they’re not coming. It’s nasty and my reason for stopping using them. But all of these people are bad for genuine businesses and self employed tradesmen because people stop using the sites and no longer trust them. I thought I’d be better going direct to companies but that’s not worked out either. I don’t know what the answer is. But I will look on local sites (I’m at the stage of saying ‘do I really need lights?’ or stick to battery ones we’re using) and hopefully get a proper tradesman there, these posts have been so helpful, thanks

1 hour ago, SPECIAL LOCATION said:

 

Edited by Cath McK
Repeated post

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Cath McK
4 hours ago, Murdoch said:

 

Just make sure you tell the next spark what you've heard, seen and experienced. Intermittent faults can be tough to locate

 

A good few years ago I was asked to investigate nuisance tripping of an RCD - because the house was surrounded by woodland I asked if they ever had mice and if they have noticed any electrical "gremlins" - a resounding no to both. 1.5 days later I found in the loft void above the ground floor bathroom a gnawed through copper core of a cable. 

 

When I told them what I'd found and where - she said - oh yes , we always have mice up their and he said - yes the bathroom light has been playing up. 

 

If they had told me this when I arrived their bill would almost certainly have been much smaller.

Yes I’ll tell them everything I’ve been told or know about flat. Is it possible a faulty lamp plugged into socket could cause lights to blow even if they’re on diff circuit? I did buy an old fashioned lamp a short while before this trouble? Yes, I think I’m overthinking, time for bed 💤💤night all

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Murdoch

@Cath McK for trade sites which you have to pay for - because they rarely publish poor reviews

 

 local word of mouth is far better and I get heaps of work via nextdoor 

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binky

you can always look at the NAPIT or NICEIC  websites for registered electricans in your area.  

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Andy™
18 minutes ago, binky said:

you can always look at the NAPIT or NICEIC  websites for registered electricans in your area.  

 

all that proves is they have paid their membership... doesnt mean youll get someone who knows what tey are doing.

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Murdoch
27 minutes ago, Andy™ said:

 

all that proves is they have paid their membership... doesnt mean youll get someone who knows what tey are doing.


and cleared cheque trumps competence

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binky
18 hours ago, Andy™ said:

 

all that proves is they have paid their membership... doesnt mean youll get someone who knows what tey are doing.

 

 but better than the mate from down the pub! 

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