Hive Thermostat Install - Old Thermostat

Mike23 · Apr 15, 2021

Hi All,

Feeling a bit out of my depth here and regretting going with the DIY option on this!

I've removed my old boiler programmer and wired the new Hive receiver as per the wirediagram.

This was pretty easy as the old programmer seemed to match the new Hive receiver (I did have to change the backplate though as the old programmer was one of those rectangle ones the hive can't connect to).

The part I'm struggling with is getting the Hive to actually turn on the heating with my old wired thermostat removed.

Online people talk about bridging cables at the wire centre to bypass the thermostat altogether (as of course the new Hive thermostat is wireless).

However, I'm not sure if I even have a wire centre (that might be a stupid question!)? The reason I think this is just due to the amount of cables behind the programmer compared to others in youtube/forum guides.

I've attached 2 photos of the wiring for the Hive receiver and also a photo of the wiring for my old thermostat before I removed it.

XFrujTr.jpg.50e20e602ac0a5d90054b2dad8142b4d.jpg

CTZYBii.jpg.91c3fd56581d0143881a145547e87ba8.jpg

3fsJhav.jpg.ac3125fa7414236e514bbcdd95fa39bc.jpg

Cheers

Mike

ProDave · Apr 15, 2021

Where have you put the Hive? In place of the boiler time clock or in place of the room thermostat?

What have you done at the one that now has presumably nothing connected any more?

Mike23 · Apr 15, 2021

The hive receiver replaces the boiler time clock which I have done.

Then the Hive thermostat is completely wireless so the old thermostat is no longer required.

However I think the reason I can't get the hive to activate the heating (hot water is fine) is because the wires for the old thermostat are still connected at the boiler time clock and thus the heating doesn't kick in because it's not making a circuit anymore.

I just don't know at the boiler time clock end (now hive receiver) what needs to change to get heating (is it just a case of removing all of the cables that were connected to the old thermostat? Does the old thermostat cables even run to here?

ProDave · Apr 15, 2021

You will need to join Live and switched live at the thermostat together, and leave neutral insulated but not connected to anything.

Sharpend · Apr 15, 2021

this will mean leaving the thermostat in place but not actually useable, or if cables are in a back box and not just poked through the wall you could put a single blank plate on the front. Do not just connect them out and push into the wall, very unsafe and dangerous to do so.

Mike23 · Apr 15, 2021

Is it not possible to do away with the old thermostat wiring altogether?

kerching · Apr 16, 2021

Mike23 said:
Is it not possible to do away with the old thermostat wiring altogether?

Yes!....simple job for a properly qualified spark HOWEVER the cores to be found and identified. Most likely come from that snot of wires at the old programmer position. If not then they could be anywhere

Mike23 · Apr 16, 2021

kerching said:
Yes!....simple job for a properly qualified spark HOWEVER the cores to be found and identified. Most likely come from that snot of wires at the old programmer position. If not then they could be anywhere

Thanks for the advice. Will try tracing the cables tomorrow. My current thought process is old thermostat grey wire is the grey wire in the terminal block as I imagine the white cable also connected to this block is the motorised valve wire. I’ll confirm with a meter tomorrow but then hopefully I can remove all of them and then just connect the white cable directly to CH on.

SPECIAL LOCATION · Apr 16, 2021

Mike23 said:
Thanks for the advice. Will try tracing the cables tomorrow. My current thought process is old thermostat grey wire is the grey wire in the terminal block as I imagine the white cable also connected to this block is the motorised valve wire. I’ll confirm with a meter tomorrow but then hopefully I can remove all of them and then just connect the white cable directly to CH on.

Once you can prove 100% where both ends of the thermostat cables are then you should be able to safely isolate them from your wiring...

But.. you do have to be aware there is no pre-set way any heating system wiring should be arranged...

which is why no one on the internet could tell you exactly how yours is connected...

The phrase "There is more than one way to skin a cat" describes a lot of electrical situations where there are multiple ways to achieve the same objective..

Its a bit like asking how do I replace my headlamp bulb on my car...

There will definitely be a best way to do it..

BUT.. its not the same for every car!!!!!

Which is why is can be difficult for someone who is not there able to use their test equipment on your actual wires to be certain of exactly how yours is wired.

Guinness

Mike23 · Apr 17, 2021

Is it possible the thermostat could go to both the programmer and wiring centre?

Sharpend · Apr 17, 2021

Where is the wiring centre? Looked as though you had a fair share of cables behind the programmer?
In a ‘system’ install the programmer gives a heating signal supply to the thermostat and it then goes from thermostat to heating valve via a wiring centre.
On a single zone heating set up on a combi boiler the thermostat would go back to the boiler, if you had more than one zone then it would go to a wiring centre to the relevant zone valve, but then you’d have more than one thermostat.

which set up do you currently have?

Mike23 · Apr 17, 2021

Sharpend said:
Where is the wiring centre? Looked as though you had a fair share of cables behind the programmer?
In a ‘system’ install the programmer gives a heating signal supply to the thermostat and it then goes from thermostat to heating valve via a wiring centre.
On a single zone heating set up on a combi boiler the thermostat would go back to the boiler, if you had more than one zone then it would go to a wiring centre to the relevant zone valve, but then you’d have more than one thermostat.

which set up do you currently have?

We don’t have a combi boiler. I don’t know fully yet but was under the impression we have a Y plan heating install.

The wiring centre is upstairs next to the hot water cylinder.

here’s a photo:

C73-BEA59-C58-E-4-E07-AC84-8-B449-B8-B1-AC6.jpg.b4f0e54149a085255f839faccab2d4f2.jpg

Sharpend · Apr 17, 2021

You have two valves, that’s an ‘S’ plan.
the blue (next to the two oranges) does that go into the terminal with the grey cable with brown sleeve and connect across to the other two blues at other end of terminal strip? I hope not, perhaps it a return core from water stat?

the two browns (4th from left) are likely to be one from programmer heat demand and one going to wall stat - albeit they look to be around the wrong way on stat? The grey (5th from left) would be the return grey from wall stat.

What test instrument do you have?

Mike23 · Apr 17, 2021

Sharpend said:
You have two valves, that’s an ‘S’ plan.
the blue (next to the two oranges) does that go into the terminal with the grey cable with brown sleeve and connect across to the other two blues at other end of terminal strip? I hope not, perhaps it a return core from water stat?

the two browns (4th from left) are likely to be one from programmer heat demand and one going to wall stat - albeit they look to be around the wrong way on stat? The grey (5th from left) would be the return grey from wall stat.

What test instrument do you have?

That’s most of my research out the window then! The blue does go into a terminal that also has grey cable connected to it but I’m not sure if they then go across to the other two blues.

There seems to be 2 cores entering the wire centre from the bottom if that’s of any help? One of them is labelled with a “II” which I’ve also seen at the programmer.

I only have a digital multimeter and I’ll be honest feeing out of my depth now for sure!

just glad I took photos and labelled everything so I can put it all back the way I found it although based on what your saying I’m wondering if back the way I found it is wrong too!

Sharpend · Apr 17, 2021

If you are not comfortable with doing this yourself then it will be a short visit from a proper spark disconnect/rearrange your wiring.
I shall not talk you through it if you are not comfortable. As a mistake could prove costly.
what area are you in? Perhaps one of us on here might be local?

With respect to my comment about the thermostat wiring it will not matter if you put it back the same it is merely a best practice issue.

Mike23 · Apr 17, 2021

Sharpend said:
If you are not comfortable with doing this yourself then it will be a short visit from a proper spark disconnect/rearrange your wiring.
I shall not talk you through it if you are not comfortable. As a mistake could prove costly.
what area are you in? Perhaps one of us on here might be local?

With respect to my comment about the thermostat wiring it will not matter if you put it back the same it is merely a best practice issue.

I’m based in the Somerset area and more than happy for someone to come out if they send me a PM.

I’ll be honest I was enjoying learning it to be fair. My view was that as long as I photo everything and label everything I can always put it back the way I found it.

The amount of wires at my programmer makes me think there’s no reason to be touching the wire centre but I obviously have no experience to back that claim up.

Based on me having an S plan would the scenario be to find the CH valve and connect that to the CH on at the programmer?

Sharpend · Apr 17, 2021

Mike23 said:
I’m based in the Somerset area and more than happy for someone to come out if they send me a PM.

I’ll be honest I was enjoying learning it to be fair. My view was that as long as I photo everything and label everything I can always put it back the way I found it.

Very wise move, you’ll be surprised at how many don’t take a picture then put it all back together incorrectly and cause damage!

The amount of wires at my programmer makes me think there’s no reason to be touching the wire centre but I obviously have no experience to back that claim up.

Wrong!

Based on me having an S plan would the scenario be to find the CH valve and connect that to the CH on at the programmer?

Take a picture of the water tank and valves in one picture

Mike23 · Apr 18, 2021

Sorry for the delay.

Here’s a photo:

7-D60-ACCB-10-C2-4-FE7-941-E-984820-B6-CDDB.jpg.b79a2b43ca7c86bbee5e2eaa21c04f45.jpg

I was under the impression valves were the things in the metal boxes? However I can only see one in this cupboard.

Sharpend · Apr 18, 2021

Is there not a white valve and a silver one behind it?

Mike23 · Apr 18, 2021

Sorry yes you’re right.

Hive Thermostat Install - Old Thermostat

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