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DiyPete

Running 6mm twin & earth cable.

Question

DiyPete

Hi, I am shifting our electric oven to the other side of the kitchen which will require a new run of 6mm twin and earth back to the consumer unit in the integral garage, the run is aprrox 11m with 9.5 m in the garage, the last bit through stud and plasterboard walling. Which is the best method to run it in the garage, cable clips butting up to the ceiling, 25mm plastic conduit, or plastic trunking 25mm x 16mm, there will be five 90 degree bends.

 

Thanks

Pete

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binky

trunking tends to be easier. By sticky backed version and add a few screw fixings to make sure it stays on the wall

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Murdoch

If its a brick wall and high up I would say clips are fine ........ and don't make the bends too tight

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Fleeting

Fixings will need to be as such that the cable will not prematurely collapse in the event of a fire.

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DiyPete

Thanks, for your help.

Pete

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binky
2 hours ago, Fleeting said:

Fixings will need to be as such that the cable will not prematurely collapse in the event of a fire.

 

thought that was corridors and stairwells? 

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Murdoch
12 minutes ago, binky said:

 

thought that was corridors and stairwells? 

 

Me too , but it wouldn't harm to have a few in a garage

 

I did hear a rumour that plastic trunking and conduit might be removed from the regs .......

Edited by Murdoch

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Fleeting
24 minutes ago, Murdoch said:

 

Me too , but it wouldn't harm to have a few in a garage

 

I did hear a rumour that plastic trunking and conduit might be removed from the regs .......

See Regulation 521.10.202 of the 18th Ed. we have moved on from Regulation 521.11.201 of the 17th Ed. nearly three years ago.

Edited by Fleeting

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Murdoch
16 minutes ago, Fleeting said:

See Regulation 521.10.202 of the 18th Ed. we have moved on from Regulation 521.11.201 of the 17th Ed. nearly three years ago.


hum.. just re-read that regard note 1 seems to confirm my thoughts

 

”wiring systems hanging across or egress routes may hinder evactuation and fire fighting activities”

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Fleeting
6 minutes ago, Murdoch said:


hum.. just re-read that regard note 1 seems to confirm my thoughts

 

”wiring systems hanging across or egress routes may hinder evactuation and fire fighting activities”

All three Notes reinforce the Regulation both comments to my initial post are referring to the 17th Ed. It is important to know these changes when carrying out EICRs. 

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Murdoch
17 minutes ago, Fleeting said:

All three Notes reinforce the Regulation both comments to my initial post are referring to the 17th Ed. It is important to know these changes when carrying out EICRs. 


WTGrape

 

i simply don’t see what the other 2 notes refer to the point being discussed

 

if the idiots who write the regs did it properly these differences of opinion wouldn’t happen

 

and as for EICRs then let’s give up

 

 

Edited by Murdoch

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SPECIAL LOCATION
38 minutes ago, Fleeting said:

See Regulation 521.10.202 of the 18th Ed. we have moved on from Regulation 521.11.201 of the 17th Ed. nearly three years ago.

 

Or 2 years and 4 months by the normal calendar that the rest of us use...

 

18th ed, Come into effect 1 Jan 2019...    {see pg4 ;)}       

 

current date 30 April 2021.   Not even two & half years yet!

 

Guinness

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Fleeting
6 minutes ago, SPECIAL LOCATION said:

 

Or 2 years and 4 months by the normal calendar that the rest of us use...

 

18th ed, Come into effect 1 Jan 2019...    {see pg4 ;)}       

 

current date 30 April 2021.   Not even two & half years yet!

 

Guinness

Fair point.

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Fleeting
12 minutes ago, Murdoch said:


WTGrape

 

i simply don’t see what the other 2 notes refer to the point being discussed

 

if the idiots who write the regs did it properly these differences of opinion wouldn’t happen

 

and as for EICRs then let’s give up

 

 

I stated cable support should not prematurely collapse in the event of a fire which is relevant to the poster, the Notes to this Regulation are also relevant. Later comments thought this referred to corridors and stairwells, I pointed out the changes between Regulations.

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Murdoch
1 hour ago, Fleeting said:

I stated cable support should not prematurely collapse in the event of a fire which is relevant to the poster, the Notes to this Regulation are also relevant. Later comments thought this referred to corridors and stairwells, I pointed out the changes between Regulations.


no you didn’t.
 

You doubted @binky opinion of what the regs meant.

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SPECIAL LOCATION

If I recall correctly the key reason for this reg being introduced was following some fires at industrial warehouse-type units...

where tragically some fire-fighters lost their lives after getting tangled up in sagging electrical cables,

and being restricted in their movements being unable to free themselves,  by their breathing apparatus...

 

Now...

 

we don't even know if this garage is a "through-way"...

i.e. many garages are a dead-end single entry with no direct access into the dwelling at all.

 

e.g. Mr or Mrs homeowner has to walk out of the front door..

in through the main garage door to get to the car/bikes/freezer/golf-clubs/whatever is stored there...

 

Even garages that do have an internal door into the property are on the balance of probability not likely to be a major fire exit route...

Nor are they likely to have loads of really slack cables passing over doorways...

 

And even if they do..

 

99.99999999% of average garages are going to be so full of other junk..

any cables will NOT be able to fall very far anyway!!!

Nor will anyone be able to walk very easily into them either..

 

There will probably be a greater risk from part used paint tins..

falling off plastic Aldi, flat-pack shelf units!!!

 

Once again it is one of those regulations where common-sense & application of the individual environment conditions comes to play..

 

In reality two to three 6inch nails banged into the wall an inch below any cable runs will catch any "sagging cables in the event of a fire"

 

If I am running cables in PCV trunking..  (to make it look a bit neater)...

I will be using a few strategically positioned metal banding loops along the way to hold cables in place until the lid is clipped on!

 

So the cables actually can't fall...

even if the lid is off!

 

As with many things BS7671 related...    Common Sense is as important as arguing over the meaning of wordings.

 

Guinness    

   

      

Edited by SPECIAL LOCATION

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Fleeting

The Regulation now has blanket coverage irrelevant of the location.

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Doc Hudson
13 minutes ago, Fleeting said:

The Regulation now has blanket coverage irrelevant of the location.

 

Strictly speaking BS761 has never had any blanket cover, as 120.3 (or its earlier incarnations),  allows for deviations/departures when the level of safety is not compromised. Obviously the person choosing to adopt any deviation would need to have sufficient backing if their deviation did go pear-shaped.

 

Doc H.  

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Murdoch
1 hour ago, Fleeting said:

The Regulation now has blanket coverage irrelevant of the location.

 

 

no it doesn’t 

 

that’s not what it says

 

the clues are access and egress

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Fleeting
7 hours ago, Murdoch said:

 

 

no it doesn’t 

 

that’s not what it says

 

the clues are access and egress

I think you need to read all the Notes as opposed to just Note 1 then it will be clear that suitable support is required not just on escape routes and/or stairwells.

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DiyPete

Hi, just to say my garage has a single entry up and over door and I will not be running the cable over it. Should the trunking/conduit melt in a fire, there are wall cupboards and shelving just below the run. I am still deciding between 25mm conduit or 25mm x16mm trunking for the run both I calculate will take less than 30% of the area inside them. With trunking, I am concerned about the 90-degree bends with 6mm T&E unless I create 45- degree bends,  either way, I want to make a neat job of it even if it is only a garage. What do you think?

 

Thanks

Pete

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Fleeting

The cable must be supported to prevent premature collapse in the event of a fire, suggesting cupboards and shelving will "catch" it is not acceptable. 

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Murdoch
On 01/05/2021 at 07:47, Fleeting said:

I think you need to read all the Notes as opposed to just Note 1 then it will be clear that suitable support is required not just on escape routes and/or stairwells.

 

521_10_202a.jpg.7220334b2512977b0b5d827745ac9495.jpg

 

Still not convinced that's what this reg says ., it does include the classic "shall" ....... that said I always do use the correct method but many don't

 

If the sentence started "All" then I would agree with you

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Sidney

Yet another regulation that can be read both ways and is ambiguous. TBH I just use fire clips anyway as they help support the cable and trunking when the glue eventually gives up and it peels away from the wall.

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binky
1 hour ago, Sidney said:

when the glue eventually gives up and it peels away from the wall.

 

I never rely  on the adhesive strip, it makes it easier to get trunking up on the wall, but I then drill and fit a few plugs and screws to make sure it stays there ad infinitum. A long run of 6mm is heavy enough to pull sticky back off anyway. 

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Murdoch
1 minute ago, binky said:

 

I never rely  on the adhesive strip, it makes it easier to get trunking up on the wall, but I then drill and fit a few plugs and screws to make sure it stays there ad infinitum. A long run of 6mm is heavy enough to pull sticky back off anyway. 

 

That's what the adhesive is for isn't it! 😀

 

That said you see so many falling off the walls so we must be in the minority and once the wall plug is in then its so easy to add the metal clips!

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