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DiyPete

Running 6mm twin & earth cable.

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DiyPete

Hi, I am shifting our electric oven to the other side of the kitchen which will require a new run of 6mm twin and earth back to the consumer unit in the integral garage, the run is aprrox 11m with 9.5 m in the garage, the last bit through stud and plasterboard walling. Which is the best method to run it in the garage, cable clips butting up to the ceiling, 25mm plastic conduit, or plastic trunking 25mm x 16mm, there will be five 90 degree bends.

 

Thanks

Pete

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Fleeting

I don't believe I suggested the garage was BD4 I just gave a generic example apologies if this confused. Considering fire rated clips are generally tested at 930°C for two hours although this may vary between manufacturers so the use of over the counter clips is likely to give a two hour duration.

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binky
14 minutes ago, Fleeting said:

I don't believe I suggested the garage was BD4 I just gave a generic example apologies if this confused. Considering fire rated clips are generally tested at 930°C for two hours although this may vary between manufacturers so the use of over the counter clips is likely to give a two hour duration.

 

 but does a single entry garage need 2 hours? I would suggest the whole house would have burnt down by then :^O

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binky
1 hour ago, Murdoch said:


I think it’s simply a problem endemic in the UK where something that should be written as black or white is written in some odd grey colour and open to interpretation. 
 

The DCLG are very guilty of this 

 

More a case of 'catch all' circumstances perhaps?  Now, it has to be said that writing regs to cover every situation is plain damn hard, so leaving grey areas is easier than writing things in black and white and letting people interpret / apply common sense.  If you write in B&W and possibly miss a circumstance that leads to a failure / death, you risk being sued. So we are also suffering an increasingly 'risk adverse' society, ie no risk (to the author) is better than writing something that could be wrong. Prime example, the story of the lady who killed her dog in a microwave, because the adverts said it would do whatever her old oven did - who the hell dries a dog in an oven! She won her case when she sued the microwave company :shakehead

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SPECIAL LOCATION
50 minutes ago, Fleeting said:

I don't believe I suggested the garage was BD4 I just gave a generic example apologies if this confused. Considering fire rated clips are generally tested at 930°C for two hours although this may vary between manufacturers so the use of over the counter clips is likely to give a two hour duration.

 

So why even mention it???

There is little point answering any questions posted with irrelevant regulations that have minimal importance, relevance, or safety implications to the question in hand..

 

Recap#1   the whole thread is about some 6.0mm T&E in a garage......

On 30/04/2021 at 15:45, DiyPete said:

Hi, I am shifting our electric oven to the other side of the kitchen which will require a new run of 6mm twin and earth back to the consumer unit in the integral garage, the run is aprrox 11m with 9.5 m in the garage, the last bit through stud and plasterboard walling. Which is the best method to run it in the garage, cable clips butting up to the ceiling, 25mm plastic conduit, or plastic trunking 25mm x 16mm, there will be five 90 degree bends.

 

Thanks

Pete

 

 

Recap#2  your first response was about premature collapse....

On 30/04/2021 at 17:23, Fleeting said:

Fixings will need to be as such that the cable will not prematurely collapse in the event of a fire.

 

 

Recap#3(a)  When I asked how soon you consider is too soon for premature collapse of 6.0mm in a domestic garage..

you started waffling on about escape routes... 

2 hours ago, Fleeting said:

I was referring to what can be considered an escape route. In terms of fire safety you have defined escape routes and routes of passage leading to the defined routes this is likely to encompass most of the floor space. The space of time a person occupies this space is not a concern as it does not change the fact of whether it is or is not a route of escape. My comment was not referring to the length of time that cable support will collapse.

 

 

Recap 3(b)   and then BD4 routes...?

1 hour ago, Fleeting said:

Yes I remember what I posted I was later considering an escape route being more complicated that just the defined escape routes which may or may not have bought about the Regulation change. The duration for premature collapse will be variable whereby a BD4 route may require 2 hours before premature collapse takes place.

 

 

I will try asking again...

(Note:  I am not asking for any specifications or interpretations of what you consider various manufactures specific fixings can or cannot withstand in the event of a fire..

I am more than capable of reading manufactures specifications data.)

 

What I want to know is..

 

How long would you be expecting a single piece of 6.0mm, approx 9.5m long, to  to stay fixed to a single entry garage wall,

before you considered it had failed prematurely?  

 

Especially as your first response to the initial question was

"Fixings will need to be as such that the cable will not prematurely collapse in the event of a fire."

 

I would hazard a guess that 99.999999999% of standard domestic single entry garages;

Could be evacuated within less than 5minutes....

and are not normally occupied...

and are not escape routes...

 

So premature collapse, and mentioning 2hrs and/or BD4.. etc..

is possible as relevant as referring to 740.55.9,  just in case Mr homeowner is repairing Dodgem cars in there as well!!

 

Please can you tell me how many minutes you consider is premature for this 9.5m or 6.0mm T&E..

 

A nice simple short answer will do...

I'll give you some suggestions that may help...

 

5min / 10min / 15min / 20min / greater..

:coffee

 

 

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Murdoch

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Or cheaper option...

 

Bog standard 6.0mm clips...

https://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-cable-clips-grey-for-twin-earth-cable-6mm-pack-of-100/9411f

 

And a few strategic loops cut off a bit of galv band..

https://www.screwfix.com/p/ced-galvanised-all-round-band-12mm-x-10m/18298?_requestid=658207

 

9.5m of cable isn't going to fall very far in the event of a few clips melting...

we are not talking of long cable runs through large commercial/retail/industrial complex!  

 

Little point keeping your cables on a unoccupied garage wall looking nice for hours during a fire...

When the garage ceiling will have probably collapsed well before then! 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fire-safety-approved-document-b

 

Guinness

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