Curing phantom voltage causing new LED lights to be on dim when switched off

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Adrian H

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I've recently replaced two long tube fluorescent lights with LED lights.
I did this in two stages, where for a short while only one fluorescent unit was replaced by LEDs and one old tube was still in the circuit.
All was well.

Once I replaced the second tube the phantom voltage became evident. The LEDs are still on, be it dimmer, when they are switched off. Sometimes you have to turn them on to realise they were off before - it can be that bright sometimes, though usually obviously much dimmer.

I'm not aware of any floating earths or neutrals in the circuit but have not conducted any specific tests for this. I do have a AstroAI DM6000AR digital multimeter if its of any use in this situation.

I'm confident the pair of two-way switches are wired OK (not changed anything there, just checked the wiring) , and I'm confident the first light I replaced with the loop-in wiring (see attachment) is wired correctly.

It seems there is a phantom voltage induced in the wiring - or capacitance effect.

What I also know is each fluorescent lighting unit had a 5.5uF 250VAC capacitor connected across live and neutral that is now removed from the circuit. I've learned a capacitor connected this way can solve ghost voltage issues. I kept one of these capacitors, so I could add it back into the circuit, but I'm not confident it is the right value for the situation or the right thing to do - masking a problem that needs solving another way?

The combination of all the new LED lights will be drawing around 0.6A (2x18W + 3x36W).
I could try to measure the phantom voltage and current with the multimeter if it provides meaningful information.

Note switching off the lighting circuit at the consumer unit with the circuit breaker switch does make the lights go dark.

Any advice on my next step?
 

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You are on the right track I think. I believe that the on-whilst-off effect is caused by capacitive coupling in the wiring effectively bypassing the switch. The more wiring there is the more it happens so long switch runs and two way circuits are particularly susceptible.

The cure is a capacitor across the  lamp and the power factor correction one you have salvaged would probably do it BUT is probably orders larger in capacitance than needed as well as physically much larger. 

There are some devices being marketed for this, sometimes called "snubbers", but all you actually need is a simple capacitor as used for interference suppression, about half a microfarad, rated for connection across mains, (known as X rating).

e.g.   https://cpc.farnell.com/panasonic/ecqu2a474ml/capacitor-class-x2-0-47uf-275v/dp/CA07103

If there are a chain of lights connect it by the one nearest the switch.

 
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not sure I agree with that .

I’ve come across many led fittings doing as described so always carry a snubber in my van ....


I've seen many glow dimly when off, but not so bright it's hard to tell if they were turned off - that is unusual. No harm in trying a snubber though and the 5.5uF he has should be fine. Used to fit those for nuetral free light switches of the type designed to replace the pneumatic timer switches. 

 
I have come across Similiar. I wonder if the original poster could confirm the type of wiring and installation method. Pvc? Conduit etc.
 
I wonder if the original poster could confirm the type of wiring and installation method.
I doubt it, if you look at his stats

Adrian H

TEF Newbie​


Joined Apr 30, 2021 Messages 1 Reaction score 0

He only made 1 Post back in April last year, and has never been back since.

I have heard of it happening a few times, seems to happen more with 2 way switching on the landing, first heard of it with CFL lamps.
 
You could fit a double pole (switching both live and neutral supply) switch if it is not two way switching. Obviously a little rewiring is required.
 
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