Lighting loops and consumer box...

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swiss2008

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Hello,

I live in rented accommodation, recently we had electricians visit to check our electrical safety.  I told them that every time a bulb blows the lights on that floor go out, the electrician said that the consumer box was causing that and it would have to be changed to stop it.

They updated the consumer box, but now when a bulb blows all the lights in the whole house go out, upstairs and downstairs, I know the electrician put all the lights on one loop when they were previously on two, what can be done about this?  I've spoken to the electrician and he said he couldn't put the lights on different loops as it would require more work, but they were in the past, so now we're in a worse situation than we were before...

Thank you for any advice in advance!! 😊

 
Hello,

I live in rented accommodation, recently we had electricians visit to check our electrical safety.  I told them that every time a bulb blows the lights on that floor go out, the electrician said that the consumer box was causing that and it would have to be changed to stop it.

They updated the consumer box, but now when a bulb blows all the lights in the whole house go out, upstairs and downstairs, I know the electrician put all the lights on one loop when they were previously on two, what can be done about this?  I've spoken to the electrician and he said he couldn't put the lights on different loops as it would require more work, but they were in the past, so now we're in a worse situation than we were before...

Thank you for any advice in advance!! 😊


When you say the whole house goes out, is this all the lights or all the lights, sockets etc?

 
Hello, thanks for your reply, no sorry it's just the lighting fuse that trips, so all the ceiling lights in the house.

 
RCBO 30

Yes we have to use old style bulbs as my partner has eye issues and new bulbs are not good, and they blow a lot!

Why would the lights have to be put on one fuse when they were on two previously, why would a new consumer unit dictate that?

 
If bulbs blow a lot the simplest thing you can try is buy "better" bulbs - branded units and not un branded from supermarkets or poundland

BUT beware halogen bulbs won't be around forever so at some point you need to go to LED's

 
If you need to know anything about light bulbs, I'm an expert, but that wasn't really the purpose of this post, although I appreciate your reply...

 
Again I appreciate your reply, but I'm really not here to talk about the bulbs I buy, but my consumer box and lighting loops, are your ceiling lights all on one loop or separated into floors?

 
Glad to,see we have a light bulb expert on here, welcome

anyway I would hazard a guess that the upstairs lights are working on a borrowed neutral to work the two way. 

Electrician realised this and took the cheaper option of sticking all on one RCBO instead of finding the fault. So when one blows , the plasma created has little,or no resistance, high current flows, breaker trips, , all lights go off. Well that's my theory, but what do I know? I am not an expert

 
Glad to,see we have a light bulb expert on here, welcome

anyway I would hazard a guess that the upstairs lights are working on a borrowed neutral to work the two way. 

Electrician realised this and took the cheaper option of sticking all on one RCBO instead of finding the fault. So when one blows , the plasma created has little,or no resistance, high current flows, breaker trips, , all lights go off. Well that's my theory, but what do I know? I am not an expert
Thank you Kerching, to be fair I do know a lot about bulbs out of necessity, but I do deserve some ribbing about the expert comment for sure!  Was just getting exasperated getting bogged down talking bulbs when I need to know about the lighting loop.  Hey if I had a choice I'd be using flickering, RF producing LED's for sure lol.  

What I don't understand is that the lights were on different loops before, so why couldn't the electrician just put them back on two separate loops?

 
What I don't understand is that the lights were on different loops before, so why couldn't the electrician just put them back on two separate loops?


Because you have what is called a borrowed neutral and "probably" the landing light has its live from the downstairs circuit and its neutral from the upstairs circuit - and leaving it like this would have tripped 2 circuits every time the landing light is switched on

To "fix this" would mean running another cable from the downstairs lights to the landing light, then re modelling the upstairs lighting circuit

Again I appreciate your reply, but I'm really not here to talk about the bulbs I buy, but my consumer box and lighting loops, are your ceiling lights all on one loop or separated into floors?


If you are suffering from regular bulb failures its VERY relevant.

 
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Because you have what is called a borrowed neutral and "probably" the landing light has its live from the downstairs circuit and its neutral from the upstairs circuit - and leaving it like this would have tripped 2 circuits every time the landing light is switched on

If you are suffering from regular bulb failures its VERY relevant.
"Because you have what is called a borrowed neutral and "probably" the landing light has its live from the downstairs circuit and its neutral from the upstairs circuit - and leaving it like this would have tripped 2 circuits every time the landing light is switched on"

Ok and am right in thinking that the safety measures on the new consumer unit would not work with that setup because there were no issues with the old one?  I wish it hadn't been changed to tell the truth!  

With regards to bulbs, in the search for the clearest brightest eye friendly light we're still using incandescent lights, which although now illegal, you can still buy due to a legal loop hole, if the bulbs are "rough service" you can still buy them, but as you can imagine, the quality of bulbs only available due to a legal loophole are pretty rubbish with regards to longevity...  Thanks again for your help!

I just want the light on separate loops again, I can handle that, is that possible with the new consumer unit?

 
"Because you have what is called a borrowed neutral and "probably" the landing light has its live from the downstairs circuit and its neutral from the upstairs circuit - and leaving it like this would have tripped 2 circuits every time the landing light is switched on"

Ok and am right in thinking that the safety measures on the new consumer unit would not work with that setup because there were no issues with the old one?  I wish it hadn't been changed to tell the truth!  

With regards to bulbs, in the search for the clearest brightest eye friendly light we're still using incandescent lights, which although now illegal, you can still buy due to a legal loop hole, if the bulbs are "rough service" you can still buy them, but as you can imagine, the quality of bulbs only available due to a legal loophole are pretty rubbish with regards to longevity...  Thanks again for your help!


If your old fuseboard didn't have RCD's then it needed to be changed IMHO - especially for the socket circuits

They certainly aren't illegal - getting trickier to buy more like

 
I just want the light on separate loops again, I can handle that, is that possible with the new consumer unit?

Do you think Brexit will help my supply of non illegal incandescent bulbs?

 
I just want the light on separate loops again, I can handle that, is that possible with the new consumer unit?

Do you think Brexit will help my supply of non illegal incandescent bulbs?


Ask your landlord and if he asks you to contribute then you need a quote from the electrician

As for halogen - stock up now BUT, without wishing to repeat myself do you actually have regular failures of bulbs?

 
I suspect you have Type B 6A protective devices fitted which are prone to tripping when incandescent lamps fail. When these lamps were still common I always fitted Type C devices as this often solves the problem. As for the separate circuit issue, as already mentioned it is almost certainly a shared neutral between the circuits on the two way stairs lighting which isn't a tripping issue in the absence of rcds but obviously is now. It can be an easy fix if new cables can be pulled down existing cable routes but if not then you are looking at cosmetic damage.

 
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Ask your landlord and if he asks you to contribute then you need a quote from the electrician

As for halogen - stock up now BUT, without wishing to repeat myself do you actually have regular failures of bulbs?
Yes but I'm not sure if that's because of the quality of the bulbs or the dodgy wiring, when they do go they really pop!

I suspect you have Type B 6A protective devices fitted which are prone to tripping when incandescent lamps fail. When these lamps were still common I always fitted Type C devices as this often solves the problem. As for the separate circuit issue, as already mentioned it is almost certainly a shared neutral between the circuits on the two way stairs lighting which isn't a tripping issue in the absence of rcds but obviously is now. It can be an easy fix if new cables can be pulled down existing cable routes but if not then you are looking at cosmetic damage.


That's great info thank you Fleeting!!

 
Glad to,see we have a light bulb expert on here, welcome

anyway I would hazard a guess that the upstairs lights are working on a borrowed neutral to work the two way. 

Electrician realised this and took the cheaper option of sticking all on one RCBO instead of finding the fault. So when one blows , the plasma created has little,or no resistance, high current flows, breaker trips, , all lights go off. Well that's my theory, but what do I know? I am not an expert
So in other words, the electrician pointed out that (in his opinion) the CU was a "fault" because an MCB trips when a fillament lamp blows (quite normal to me) and suggested the "cure" was a new consumer unit.

Having fitted the new consumer unit, which now has RCD's on the lighting circuits, he found a borrowed neutral so put all the lights on one MCB.

So now it is WORSE than before that all the lights trip when a bulb goes not just half of them.

I would say you have just cause to call him back and at least make it "no worse" than before he started his expensive "cure"  and he should put it right at his expense.

 
Yes but I'm not sure if that's because of the quality of the bulbs or the dodgy wiring, when they do go they really pop!




That doesn't sound good (pardon the pun)

If you were one of my clients I would suggest keeping a list of which bulbs go and when - so if you see a pattern (say the lounge light) going regularly, then maybe investigating further may make sense, but could be costly.

Need more info really to make any more comments really

Was your old fuseboard one with fuse wire?

 
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