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Wiring for ceiling lights?


martd77

Question

hi

my first post on here,im not an electrician in any way just after some tips or advice if all possible

Im wanting to change the ceiling lights in the kitchen and the front room,having taken the fuse out of the main box removed the 2 lights,a 3bar spotlight and a 3 light uplighter,then checked with electrical screwdriver to ensure the wires not live,i proceeded to do the new fit.

However my wiring is twin with no earth and both new light fittings have a place for an earth?

Lived here near 10yr and not had any lighting problems but is this dangerous not to have an earth wire connected?

Other than rewiring is there another solution?

thanks help much appreciated

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23 answers to this question

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thanks for that what does rewiring with earth cpc connections mean?presume you mean rewire with 3 core wire?

sorry not an electrician so i dont understand some of the terms

thanks

You could rewire back to the consumer unit (fuse board) in 2 or 3 core (& earth) or just run a seperate earth wire to the lights.

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I have been doing an unusual one this weekend. Probably wired in the 60's. Mainly singles and some twin. But boxes are metal with conduit but are not earthed at all. Never seen this before, could not of complied to any wiring regultion.

Batty

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thanks i understand now

regards to you all for your help ive decided to find an electrician to rewire the lights in the kitchen and front room

thanks again

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thanks i understand now

regards to you all for your help ive decided to find an electrician to rewire the lights in the kitchen and front room

thanks again

i was going to say if you are not an electrician, then get a qualified electrician in to do this work. Applaud Smiley

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special location

thanks again

Nozpark

thanks makes interesting reading

No problem Martd77.....

Guiness Drink

Thats what we all luuuv doing on this forum....

helpful practical advice ....

whilst keeping safety and compliance with current regs at the forefront...

without taking the Pi55 out of anyone who is asking a perfectly reasonable question!;):D

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i was going to say if you are not an electrician, then get a qualified electrician in to do this work. Applaud Smiley

Running an earth wire to an existing circuit wouldn't be notifiable!

:D

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Running an earth wire to an existing circuit wouldn't be notifiable!

:D

But if you are going to go to all that bother you may as well rewire and do the job properly.

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hi

my first post on here,im not an electrician in any way just after some tips or advice if all possible

Im wanting to change the ceiling lights in the kitchen and the front room,having taken the fuse out of the main box removed the 2 lights,a 3bar spotlight and a 3 light uplighter,then checked with electrical screwdriver to ensure the wires not live,i proceeded to do the new fit.

However my wiring is twin with no earth and both new light fittings have a place for an earth?

Lived here near 10yr and not had any lighting problems but is this dangerous not to have an earth wire connected?

Other than rewiring is there another solution?

thanks help much appreciated

Hello Martd welcome to the forum.

Domestic house wiring prior to 1966 did not require an earth conductor (also called a "CPC", 'circuit protective conductor').

So I would assume your lighting circuit wiring could be 40+ years old.

1/ Condition of cables?

It may still be electrically safe.. but if you have not had any recent alteration work done by an electrician with an approved test meter who can fully test the condition of the cables it is very hard to say.

(I do know of many older wiring installation that are still electrically sound).

Are the cables PVC?

If they are old rubber cables then they definately need replacing!

2/ Type of fittings?

If you have NO earth, CPC wire, ALL connected fittings should be double insulated or what is called a "Class 2" fitting. Typically these are plastic fittings with NO exposed metal parts.

If the light fitting has an earth terminal & its instructions say "this appliance must be earthed" then Yes it would be unsafe to connected it to a circuit with no earth.

The risk:

If an exposed metal part accidentally becomes in contact with a live part, you can have 230v on the outside of the fitting... which could kill you!:(

hope that helps.

:)

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We had some work done by a british gas electrician in my daughters bedroom about 3yrs ago, he replaced and rewired 3 sockets because he said it was "old" wiring but they have been since to do a routine check and not said anything?

The house was built about 1950 and our surveyors report said the house had been rewired,clearly it hadnt because even though the wiring from the mains box looks relatively new (grey pvc),we did find in daughter bedroom "rubber cabling" which had perished.

The ceiling cables look like pvc to me and look in good condition but not having the "earth" makes me not want to connect the lights,yes it does say "this appliance must be earthed" on both lights,ill take them back and try find some that dont, the one i bought was a long 6 bar spotlight for the kitchen and thats obviously metal "chrome" bars etc

Thanks ill look at different lights "class 2",failing that ill get a local electrician to come and do me a quote for redoing the lighting wires

thanks

most helpful

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Brilliant thread, meaningful title, clearly stated sensible question, well explained concise factual answer, response saying thanks and showing that answer has been understood.

Perfect.

Am I a boring old fart?

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Brilliant thread, meaningful title, clearly stated sensible question, well explained concise factual answer, response saying thanks and showing that answer has been understood.

Perfect.

Am I a boring old fart?

Admin.....

can we have a poll please...

"Is Riggy a boring old fart?"!!!! ]:)]:):D:x

PS...

I would vote NO...

you are NOT a boring old fart!!Applaud Smiley;)

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We had some work done by a british gas electrician in my daughters bedroom about 3yrs ago, he replaced and rewired 3 sockets because he said it was "old" wiring but they have been since to do a routine check and not said anything?

The house was built about 1950 and our surveyors report said the house had been rewired,clearly it hadnt because even though the wiring from the mains box looks relatively new (grey pvc),we did find in daughter bedroom "rubber cabling" which had perished.

The ceiling cables look like pvc to me and look in good condition but not having the "earth" makes me not want to connect the lights,yes it does say "this appliance must be earthed" on both lights,ill take them back and try find some that dont, the one i bought was a long 6 bar spotlight for the kitchen and thats obviously metal "chrome" bars etc

Thanks ill look at different lights "class 2",failing that ill get a local electrician to come and do me a quote for redoing the lighting wires

thanks

most helpful

There is a company that specialises in supplying Class 2, Double insulated light fittings.

http://www.double-insulated-lighting.co.uk/class-2-lighting-ranges.htm

If the Gas electrician was working on the sockets... he would be under no obligation to check or test the lighting circuits, (unless you paid him to test them!)

ANY work that was done by a professional electrician, should have an appropriate certificate issued...

Electrical Installation certificate. (new circuits/ fuse boxes etc..)

Minor works certificate. (small fixes & changes)

or

Periodic inspection report. (testing & checking only)

All of the above have space for comments on the existing instalation...

So if you dont have any certificates for the property.. I guess it has not been formally tested..

Note: There is NO legal obligation to have to test domestic electrical installations..

But good practice in the wiring regs does recommend once every 10 years or change of occupancy.

From the sounds of it..

you probably would be wise to get a formal periodic inspection done of the whole installation..

this would then give you a list of any areas requiring attention..

typically for the average domestic property this would be between half to one days work....

probably around

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Thanks ill look at different lights "class 2",failing that ill get a local electrician to come and do me a quote for redoing the lighting wires

If the wiring tests out OK it may be possible and less disruption to run a separate earth wire to the lights that require it.

:D

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with regard to periodic inspection,we have "electrical " cover with BGas they are supposed to come once a year and inspect or test the wiring,i presume thats what they do,a bit like the gas boiler cover serviced every year?

Anyway they only came once after repeated phone calls,never saw them again and cancelled the cover because it clearly ststes in their mandate that if the wiring doesnt conform to such n such a part of electricals then we are not covered, so its a waste of money,when i cancelled it they tols me it didnt mean that!

The only "certificate"we have is for the 3 replacement double sockets they fitted and re wired in my daughters bedroom

cheers special location i will look at that link

thanks to you all again

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with regard to periodic inspection,we have "electrical " cover with BGas they are supposed to come once a year and inspect or test the wiring,i presume thats what they do,a bit like the gas boiler cover serviced every year?

Anyway they only came once after repeated phone calls,never saw them again and cancelled the cover because it clearly ststes in their mandate that if the wiring doesnt conform to such n such a part of electricals then we are not covered, so its a waste of money,when i cancelled it they tols me it didnt mean that!

The only "certificate"we have is for the 3 replacement double sockets they fitted and re wired in my daughters bedroom

cheers special location i will look at that link

thanks to you all again

Hmm!

that sounds about par for the course or most of these "warranty" "home cover" type schemes...

once you get down to the small print you find you are covered for next to nothing and/or you then have to pay a massive excess costs for certain materials that are NOT covered!!!!

personally I think you are better putting your fees for this sort of cover into a separate bank/building society account and build up your own back-up fund.. that you can also get some interest on.. and probably 70% or 80% of real urgent call outs could be covered by what you have saved up yourself.

ONCE A YEAR?

that also sounds more like a basic Visual only inspection...

Not full testing of the circuits,

If they did do a full 'PIR' as detailed in the guidance in the wiring regs you would of had a report with typically 4x A4 pages,

one page - would be a full list of test readings for all of the individual circuits

one page - would have a list of any observations they have found and recommended action.

one page - would be general details about your address and type of supply coming into the property.

one page - with a list of areas they have inspected & tested.

there could be additional pages if appropriate!

:|

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If you have no CPC in your lighting circuit you have 3 options..

1. Rewire the lighting circuit (inc adding RCD protection)

2. Take an earth wire from your CU to each point on the lighting circuit, following the existing cable path

3. Only use class 2 fittings and RCD protect the circuit

The are also in the preferred order in terms of safety

It might be worth having a look at this as well.

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British Gas electrical inspections are a a visual only, and judging by one I looked at after this inspection they obviously employ Stevie Wonder to do this job, they stated that there was no bonds to gas and water (10mm's located about 2m from DB) and that there was no RCD protection (which was correct) but missed the two 2.5mm radials that were on 30Amp rewireables, the 4.0mm shower supply with what looks like a bit of 1.5mm solid core as a fuse element as well as numerous broken accessories throughout the installation which should have been obvious on a visual inspection even without bothering to test the circuits.I think special locations idea for householders to save their own money and then employ a REPUTABLE electrician when they need one would probably be more economical than these schemes as long as they realise that if there is any doubt about the standard of the installation they would be better off starting with a full periodic which should give them an idea of what problems they need to resolve before it becomes an emergency call out.

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British Gas electrical inspections are a a visual only, and judging by one I looked at after this inspection they obviously employ Stevie Wonder to do this job, .............

Hello Phil, Welcome to the forum...Guiness Drink

I have not had the "pleasure":O of following up any B-Gas inspections...

But you seem to confirm my suspicions!:|:(

Applaud Smiley

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Cheers for all your help can anyone provide another link to a site that sells "cheaper" double insulated lights? looking at the one provided by "special location" the 3bar spot i want for the kitchen is like
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Cheers for all your help can anyone provide another link to a site that sells "cheaper" double insulated lights? looking at the one provided by "special location" the 3bar spot i want for the kitchen is like

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thanks for that what does rewiring with earth cpc connections mean?presume you mean rewire with 3 core wire?

sorry not an electrician so i dont understand some of the terms

thanks

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