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Terminating question?


spider

Question

Hi when terminating wires in plug outlets on a ring main do you twist the two lives /neutrals together or do you push them both into the hole and just tighten the connection screw?

Sorry i carnt make that any clearer and i apologize if the correct terminology wasn't used. Thanx

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19 answers to this question

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Twisting the cables will only give you grief when you come to testing the circuits, (if you haven't already tested them that is) and they need to be seperated.

Nothing worst then having to do a PIR on circuits that have been twisted together! More time consuming and more costly.

I was certainly taugh that twisting cables is bad practice and I therefore aviod it, however I always double my connections where possible on the right size cables.

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"Don't Twist again , like you did last summer" Accessory terminals were changed when metric solid strand cores came in. Just strip and poke 'em in , twisting solids is not good.

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NO..

You get a much better mechanical & electrical termination when they're put in straight!

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I don't know either but someone will answer :) ^^^ and have :)

However, I find that twisting the wire may break them and does weaken them.

I have found that on some jobs the wire has it's insulation removed for about 15mm then folded (do that for both) and just inserted.

:)

[EDIT]

This link says twist

http://www.channel4.com/4homes/diy-self-build/diy-build-advice/a-z-of-diy-building-guides/how-to-wire-a-plug-socket-1-08-10-27_p_4.html

but I still agree with above post for the breaking reason (but I'm not an electrician)

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thanx BS60898 im messing with 4mm T&E omg its hard just about able to get it into the socket already killed two socket faces because of the wierd screw orientations oh well live and learn.

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Terminate the cables and put them in next to each other as said above (1st reply). The dome on the end of the terminal screw sits and tightens down onto the cables far better than if they were twisted thus is far less likely to come loose than if the cables are twisted.

I come accross far more twisted loose/burnt out connections than untwisted.

When terminating single cables make the bared cable twice as long and double it over (flat). Long nose pliers are good for this. Put the doubled cable into the terminal so that the loop of the terminated cable is going in the clockwise direction so when tightening the screw it pulls the cable in instead of pushing it out if you get what I mean, hard to explain without a diagram.

I never double over if there's two cables going into one terminal though, you'd have the equivalent of four cables in there and the screw never seems to sit down on them well if done like that.

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thanx boltonsparky yeh good pointers there i just read them in the electrical handbook X edition im going to have thick skin on my fingers when this is all done.

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Not only is it best to install them straight, but twisting before terminating can lead to the cables popping out but still being joined of sorts, meaning you can acquire a false continuity reading.

AndyGuiness Drink

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Twisting cables was done when solid cores came in as this was the way it was done with the stranded cables. But as others have said it is not a good idea as it weekens the cable and can break it off. If you tighten the screws tight you should have no problem. If you are using 4mm there is plenty of cable for the screw to grip too so there is no need to twist either.

Batty

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twisting is a a waste of time, and makes a worse connection. unless its flex, then twisting can be useful to keep conductors together

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Now what if it's buried in insulation and you have a ring/radial in 4mm stranded..............

:coat

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Another example of twisted terminations being dangerous is a PIR I did recently where the r1+r2 continuity checked out ok but at one of the sockets I got no earth conection at all.

On inspection I found that the terminals had come loose or where never tightened, and left any appliance plugged into that socket without an earth. The earth cable like all other cables had been twisted together.

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Another example of twisted terminations being dangerous is a PIR I did recently where the r1+r2 continuity checked out ok but at one of the sockets I got no earth conection at all.

On inspection I found that the terminals had come loose or where never tightened, and left any appliance plugged into that socket without an earth. The earth cable like all other cables had been twisted together.

GH - you been on holiday?

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LOL no I have been converting a school into my favorite TT installation on a full rewire.

Worked a solid 15 days to get it finished for today.

I installed two earth rods and got the Ze down to 0.29.

Used 16mm earth cable throughout and linked 3 db's with extra 16mm earths as well as the cpc in the armour.

Got all disconnection times down to inder 0.2 sec So proud I am an all :)

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Good job :D

Noticed your absence!

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Hi when terminating wires in plug outlets on a ring main do you twist the two lives /neutrals together or do you push them both into the hole and just tighten the connection screw?

Sorry i carnt make that any clearer and i apologize if the correct terminology wasn't used. Thanx

Hello Spider....

1/ (with me pedantic head on....

I am sure you actually meant SOCKET outlets not 'plug' outlets..

just trying to check we are all awake no doubt!?:D;)Blushing:^O)

2/ NO never twist the cables together..

If or when you ever have to go back and...

a) do a PIR and happen to open up the socket as part of a random sample test...

OR

B) you are trying to trace a fault and want to break open the ring at at two or three places to identify the faulty section...

OR

c) you have to go and add a spur on from that socket

OR

d) Just replacing the socket front for a fancy metal finish & you want to check ring continuity while you are doing it....

You will be cussing the BAR****D who twisted the wires together!

I was taught to do the fold-over method to make each conductor into a 'spade-type' termination..

allows greater surface area contact within termination

it also provides a nice chunky wire end to put meter croc-clips onto if doing some testing!

Two folded spade 2.5mm conductors will comfortably fit inside a socket terminal connections.

IF doing a spur..

i.e. 3 x 2.5mm I just do the three conductors but DON'T fold them!!!

HTH

;)Guiness Drink

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