Twin Mains supply to double socket socket

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Nobrainer666

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Looking for a double socket which accepts 2 mains cables. Existing socket has 2 mains cables wired separately to the individual power points on a double socket. I cannot source a socket like this. Can both mains cables (from the same fuse box) be wired to a single input on a regular double socket? Thanks. 

 
might have to get some kind of grid with 2x individual single sockets, alternatively a dual 1g box and 2x single sockets would also work. bit of on odd setup though and not common

 
I think he is talking of the "two feeds" or a ring final?

There was a phase some years ago when one make of socket had two relatively small terminals intended to terminate both legs of the ring separately, and perhaps that is what the OP has, and he therefore thinks he must replace it with another socket with 2 terminals.

IF that is the case, then he can use any normal socket with one terminal and terminate both cables in the one terminal.

 
ProDave said:
There was a phase some years ago when one make of socket had two relatively small terminals
Click to expand...


RRP - Reddich Plastic Products - CEF own brand. Not sure if anyone else had the poor sense to do the same

 
Nobrainer666 said:
Looking for a double socket which accepts 2 mains cables. Existing socket has 2 mains cables wired separately to the individual power points on a double socket. I cannot source a socket like this. Can both mains cables (from the same fuse box) be wired to a single input on a regular double socket? Thanks. 
Click to expand...

 
I have seen two gang sockets with the ability to connect separately a sort of modular system where the individual sockets could be removed, Wandsworth I believe however I suspect other posts referencing RPP is more likely.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thank you guys. The EC4U training site shows 2 feeds going into one terminal on a double socket so I just wanted to confirm that is okay. I think there was an electric heater next to the socket which was removed when gas CH put in. They must have found a double socket with 2 individual terminals so that the old heater cable was connected to something. 

Thanks for the help 

 
Nobrainer666 said:
Thank you guys. The EC4U training site shows 2 feeds going into one terminal on a double socket so I just wanted to confirm that is okay. I think there was an electric heater next to the socket which was removed when gas CH put in. They must have found a double socket with 2 individual terminals so that the old heater cable was connected to something. 

Thanks for the help 
Click to expand...
You may possibly have a storage heater supply AND a constant supply in the socket.........not good if it hasn't been sorted out at the other end

careful now, it could end in tears OR WORSE 💀 🚑

Just saying

 
Nobrainer666 said:
Thank you guys. The EC4U training site shows 2 feeds going into one terminal on a double socket so I just wanted to confirm that is okay. I think there was an electric heater next to the socket which was removed when gas CH put in. They must have found a double socket with 2 individual terminals so that the old heater cable was connected to something.

Thanks for the help
Click to expand...
Will all please note, the requirements for a ring-main are that it can NEVER be broken. So in fact, before terminating the two ends of a ring into an outlet. Whether it a socket-outlet or a spur unit. The two ends of the ring MUST be twisted together. You MUST NOT just push the two ends into the terminals or as in this case terminate them separately. So if a terminal were to work loose the ring is NOT broken. This is also why the IEE banned Aluminium cable below 16 sq. mm. Since it had a habit of breaking off in terminals and opening the ring. This led to several fires and deaths. Do they not teach how a ring works or how to terminate the cable safety and properly anymore? Once a ring is broken, it becomes VERY dangerous.
 
Speed said:
Will all please note, the requirements for a ring-main are that it can NEVER be broken. So in fact, before terminating the two ends of a ring into an outlet. Whether it a socket-outlet or a spur unit. The two ends of the ring MUST be twisted together. You MUST NOT just push the two ends into the terminals or as in this case terminate them separately. So if a terminal were to work loose the ring is NOT broken. This is also why the IEE banned Aluminium cable below 16 sq. mm. Since it had a habit of breaking off in terminals and opening the ring. This led to several fires and deaths. Do they not teach how a ring works or how to terminate the cable safety and properly anymore? Once a ring is broken, it becomes VERY dangerous.
Click to expand...
Where is it stated you MUST twist the conductors. The IEE don't ban anything they just adjust/amend things. I assume you mean ring final circuit and not a ring main to be precise, according to Regulations of course.
 
what a load of **brussels**. there is no requirement to twist conductors, and those who do are **carrots** who have never done any testing / fault finding where you often need to untwist them. and you dont know why they want that type of socket, they never said anything about breaking the ring. thats you jumping to conclusions. and dangerous ones at that. maybe youre the one who needs to go back to college to learn how to do electrics safely and properly...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I am fairly sure when I was taught twisting of conductors was frowned upon as it stretches the copper and causes potential weak spots which means it becomes susceptible to breakage, clearly I learned from the wrong college?
Don't twist just Torque, I believe the mantra is now?
 
Oh Dear! What a lot of amateur electricians there seems out there. It seems some of you do not know much about the history of electrical practise in the UK. As a Senior Electrical Engineer, I probably forgotten more than you seem to know. If you understood electrical theory, you would know the danger of poor workmanship when terminating ring circuits. For instance, if you have a 32A MCB protecting a ring constructed in 2.5 sq. mm cable. If the ring becomes broken due to poor workmanship and the full load of 32A happen to be all on one leg. You have immediately overloaded the cable. Which fails to obey the 'Electricity at Work Regulation 1989' act, regulation 5.

It the 'Electricity at Work 1989 Regulations' act that is law. The IEE or now IET regulations BS7671 is merely how you comply with the law. However, BS7671 also assumes you are complying with Regulation 16 of the 'Electricity at Work Regulation 1989' act. Not all Electricians are equal in their knowledge.

As for the comment on ring circuits. Of cause I'm referring to final circuits. As I very much doubt from the Q&A's on this site that any of you work on or have a licence to work on 11kV ring circuits. So unless you an Electrical Engineer involved with designing HV distribution system. What other type of ring circuits have you installed?

As for twisting ends on a ring, if terminated properly. There should plenty of spare on wirers to allow for re-termination in the future. Only fools cut the wirers short when terminating? You should have enough spare to go twice the length of the backbox before terminating in front plate.
 
Speed said:
Oh Dear! What a lot of amateur electricians there seems out there. It seems some of you do not know much about the history of electrical practise in the UK. As a Senior Electrical Engineer, I probably forgotten more than you seem to know. If you understood electrical theory, you would know the danger of poor workmanship when terminating ring circuits. For instance, if you have a 32A MCB protecting a ring constructed in 2.5 sq. mm cable. If the ring becomes broken due to poor workmanship and the full load of 32A happen to be all on one leg. You have immediately overloaded the cable. Which fails to obey the 'Electricity at Work Regulation 1989' act, regulation 5.

It the 'Electricity at Work 1989 Regulations' act that is law. The IEE or now IET regulations BS7671 is merely how you comply with the law. However, BS7671 also assumes you are complying with Regulation 16 of the 'Electricity at Work Regulation 1989' act. Not all Electricians are equal in their knowledge.

As for the comment on ring circuits. Of cause I'm referring to final circuits. As I very much doubt from the Q&A's on this site that any of you work on or have a licence to work on 11kV ring circuits. So unless you an Electrical Engineer involved with designing HV distribution system. What other type of ring circuits have you installed?

As for twisting ends on a ring, if terminated properly. There should plenty of spare on wirers to allow for re-termination in the future. Only fools cut the wirers short when terminating? You should have enough spare to go twice the length of the backbox before terminating in front plate.
Click to expand...
Being a senior electrical engineer using the correct term ring final circuit should roll from your fingers to the keyboard. You still haven't given the information as to where it is stated you MUST twist conductors together prior to termination. We all have eggs in our mouths what to we do next.
 
I would go as far too say that the installation technique you champion is as long in the tooth as your experience in the trade. Many years ago it was accepted as the method of termination but has since been thrown into doubt following too many broken ring final circuits found in testing due to breakages of twisted conductors, however I can’t ever remember it being a ‘MUST DO’ method.
I am curious how you propose that a ring final circuit becomes disconnected if terminated correctly and remains untouched? Some would say that there is more chance of a twisted conductor breaking off as you position the plate back than there is of correctly terminated cores?
 
Speed said:
Oh Dear! What a lot of amateur electricians there seems out there. It seems some of you do not know much about the history of electrical practise in the UK. As a Senior Electrical Engineer, I probably forgotten more than you seem to know. If you understood electrical theory, you would know the danger of poor workmanship when terminating ring circuits. For instance, if you have a 32A MCB protecting a ring constructed in 2.5 sq. mm cable. If the ring becomes broken due to poor workmanship and the full load of 32A happen to be all on one leg. You have immediately overloaded the cable. Which fails to obey the 'Electricity at Work Regulation 1989' act, regulation 5.

It the 'Electricity at Work 1989 Regulations' act that is law. The IEE or now IET regulations BS7671 is merely how you comply with the law. However, BS7671 also assumes you are complying with Regulation 16 of the 'Electricity at Work Regulation 1989' act. Not all Electricians are equal in their knowledge.

As for the comment on ring circuits. Of cause I'm referring to final circuits. As I very much doubt from the Q&A's on this site that any of you work on or have a licence to work on 11kV ring circuits. So unless you an Electrical Engineer involved with designing HV distribution system. What other type of ring circuits have you installed?

As for twisting ends on a ring, if terminated properly. There should plenty of spare on wirers to allow for re-termination in the future. Only fools cut the wirers short when terminating? You should have enough spare to go twice the length of the backbox before terminating in front plate.
Click to expand...
So what happens when an install has been in for years, it’s had its sockets fronts changed a few times, had a few eicrs (PIR for the old school) done and suddenly there is no extra length do you recommend a rewire?
 
Speed said:
Oh Dear! What a lot of amateur electricians there seems out there. It seems some of you do not know much about the history of electrical practise in the UK. As a Senior Electrical Engineer, I probably forgotten more than you seem to know. If you understood electrical theory, you would know the danger of poor workmanship when terminating ring circuits. For instance, if you have a 32A MCB protecting a ring constructed in 2.5 sq. mm cable. If the ring becomes broken due to poor workmanship and the full load of 32A happen to be all on one leg. You have immediately overloaded the cable. Which fails to obey the 'Electricity at Work Regulation 1989' act, regulation 5.

It the 'Electricity at Work 1989 Regulations' act that is law. The IEE or now IET regulations BS7671 is merely how you comply with the law. However, BS7671 also assumes you are complying with Regulation 16 of the 'Electricity at Work Regulation 1989' act. Not all Electricians are equal in their knowledge.

As for the comment on ring circuits. Of cause I'm referring to final circuits. As I very much doubt from the Q&A's on this site that any of you work on or have a licence to work on 11kV ring circuits. So unless you an Electrical Engineer involved with designing HV distribution system. What other type of ring circuits have you installed?

As for twisting ends on a ring, if terminated properly. There should plenty of spare on wirers to allow for re-termination in the future. Only fools cut the wirers short when terminating? You should have enough spare to go twice the length of the backbox before terminating in front plate.
Click to expand...
Amateurs , lmfao ,
And yes, some of us work on, and test, up to 33kV
Anyone twisting 2.5 solid core really does need some lessons on good , and acceptable , practice
 

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