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Is it just me who finds this bad practise?


Barx

Question

Wiring lights 3-plate (for those that dont know, this is using twin with feeds at fitting ;)). Spec requires an outside light (bulkhead) to be installed. Now, to me it seems bad practice to run the loops through the outside light as per the other fittings. I haven't particularly heard anything on the subject either way, just something popping in my head saying this just isn't right. If the light was ever removed or ripped off by a vandal then a number of lights in the property could become dead.

All the other lads at work; sparks and mates dont seem to have a problem with this.

Personally I run a single neutral from nearest fitting and a single line/earth from given switch (obviously making sure there is perm live there first.)

I dont know. Am I just being over cautious. What do you guys think.

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24 answers to this question

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Sticky keyboard ....... mmmmm.......what you been upto ROTFWLwhat sites you been visiting lol

pbvously what ever sites he has been visiting, he must have enjoyed himself profusley

:^O:^O

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thanks for the replies guys. Its seems most agree with me which makes me feel a bit better. I like the idea with the 3 core to switch, good for the private jobs. No, no for the council work though. COW would have a fit if he found a neutral at a switch, lol.

Thanks again ;)

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thanks for the replies guys. Its seems most agree with me which makes me feel a bit better. I like the idea with the 3 core to switch, good for the private jobs. No, no for the council work though. COW would have a fit if he found a neutral at a switch, lol.

Thanks again ;)

Why would the Clerk of Works have a fit finding a neutral in a switch ??? ?:|

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Why would the Clerk of Works have a fit finding a neutral in a switch ??? ?:|

It's in big bold letters in the spec mate.

NO NEUTRAL CONDUCTORS TO BE TAKEN TO SWITCH BOXES

Or something to that effect, it's deffo there though.

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Hi barx, What will you do when you have a lamp holder, which requires a permanent live as well as a switch live. Change your mind

Leave it switched on ;)

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It's in big bold letters in the spec mate.

NO NEUTRAL CONDUCTORS TO BE TAKEN TO SWITCH BOXES

Or something to that effect, it's deffo there though.

I've never heard of that one and I've been doing it for 18 years having worked in literally 1000's of council houses in North Wales. Some local authority houses I've worked in have had neon indicators on the switches for lights in cupboards so you definitely need a neutral for those to work. Many sparks also run the loop feeds through the switches although I prefer not to as with 17th edition RCD protection I feel it increases the risk of pinching a live or neutral with a pattress screw etc and creating an earth fault which trips the RCD.

Even with that neutral rule you could still run a three core as a switchwire (using brown as common, black for the switchwire nearest the front/ back door and grey for the outside light) and run a T&E from that light fitting with the switched feed in a thru-crimp.

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with most modern light fittings it is getting harder to fit all the cables into

I always loop through the switch and one wire to the light fitting plus if the customer fits the fitting later they cant get much wrong.how many times Ive been called out when customer has put all the reds(browns) together and blacks(blues) together and bang

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It's in big bold letters in the spec mate.

NO NEUTRAL CONDUCTORS TO BE TAKEN TO SWITCH BOXES

Or something to that effect, it's deffo there though.

This is one of those stupid ideas that circulate within our trade. See my thread " Myths of the Trade" I think this one is in there. Some of these local council COWs are right berks TBH. This misconception was around in days of the 14th Ed. , a lack of understanding of the Reg. that said "Only the live conductor can be switched with a single pole switch, not the neutral" .

You get this from people who have never actually done the job .

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I never have perm lives at outside lights only sw lives. Like you I would also think this is bad practice. There are many ways to wire without doing this.

Batty

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Same here , where do you 3 plate in a bulkhead fitting, say. I agree , its bad practice.

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it is not bad practise. it is just easier to terminate one cable and to keep water tight.

and also on enclosed fitting I always heat sleeve all cables and use porcelain connectors

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No I only take the neutral cpc & switched line out to external fittings.

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Fact remains that they genersally do not allow it. I work for several councils / Housing Associations and they are very particular. 3 plate wiring ONLY. Smacked botty if caught using your head and taking a neutral down to the switch.

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What about using single core + e for the line conductors and DI singles for the neutrals, that way can loop through the switches without the neutrals ever going near them.

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Outside emergency lighting requires a permanant live.

Providing there is a way to isolate there is really no problem with any lighting to have a permanant live.

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Fact remains that they genersally do not allow it. I work for several councils / Housing Associations and they are very particular. 3 plate wiring ONLY. Smacked botty if caught using your head and taking a neutral down to the switch.

That still does not mean that you cannot do it , just because some out of touch council clerk thinks you can't have a neutral in a light switch.

I agree that while you are working on their project, to their specification,you have to toe their line , but don't start thinking if the council say so then it must be right, they have their own agenda,s which are not necessarily connected to the real world.

A certain West Midlands council did not allow 3 plate wiring in their spec. concerned about the live feed at each ceiling rose. That did not make it a regulation . They were also doing their masionettes in steel conduit FFS. With meter tails in 35mm steel conduit.

Birmingham Council used to insist you earthed the metal capping on house bashing , is that a reg? Another Midlands council only accepts Part P certificates from NICEIC sparks, as I say , they have their own agenda, the rest of us inhabit the real world.

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I never run permanent feeds to outside lights. I usually use a three core as a switchwire to the switch nearest the back/ front door, this brings a neutral down to the switch - then I run a T&E to the outside light fitting from that switch, making it into a 2 gang etc.

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generally not done. we all now how much connecting is involved so any connecting that isn't needed should be avoided.

plus the room you get with some fittings is beyond a joke

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There is a massive difference between something being best-practice and not . If something is best practice doing any other way does not make it bad practice. There is nothing wrong with a perm line ourside aslong as the protectins are in place (i.e thermal sleeving etc) Bad practice is a no - no under any condition

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