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When does 17th edition apply


albomac

Question

When moving a socket or adding a socket in a kitchen to an existing circuit does the circuit then have to comply to the 17th edition regs ie RCD/RCBO protection hence turning a small job into a more expensive one??

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Things are not so simple these days . A simple job can turn rather costly and a customer can often think that you are trying it on . However You are the professional and your advice is genuine as regs have to be followed to cover yourself in this finger pointing society in which we live . O)

Or you could just do it the wrong way. Went to fit a bathroom cabinet Friday evening. Room was converted from part of bedroom with shower, loo and basin in. Downlights and supply for cabinet had been put in by customers brother in laws electrician. I said would need to check if circuit was Rcd protected and you've guessed it was not. Customer phoned electrician and his answer was he had done it to the 16th edition. Perhaps I will have to use that one.

Batty

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Not quite. Extending an existing cct is not notifiable outside of special locations. So adding a spur, FCU fitting a few downlights does not need to be notified. However your work needs to comply with the 17th edn.

So it would need RCD protecting - but some would just protect the alteration (eg RCD incoperated FCU) and some would divert the whole cct at the cu through a stand alone RCD. There is much debate whether the whole cct needs upgrading or just you alteration, the majority on here lie with just your new work must comply. Assuming, of course, that the wiring was buried in a wall or in a bathroom etc etc.

Not so sure about "fitting a few downlighters" not being notifiable...

Part P is a strange one sometimes. For example, you can install outside lights and if they are taken off the lighting cct then it is not notifiable - but taken off a ring main then it is.

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Not so sure about "fitting a few downlighters" not being notifiable...

Part P is a strange one sometimes. For example, you can install outside lights and if they are taken off the lighting cct then it is not notifiable - but taken off a ring main then it is.

its fairly clear for many things.

fitting a few downlights. notifiable in a special location. otherwise non-notifiable

outside light. i dont see how getting a feed form lighting circuit or socket makes any difference to it being notifiable or not.

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its fairly clear for many things.

fitting a few downlights. notifiable in a special location. otherwise non-notifiable

outside light. i dont see how getting a feed form lighting circuit or socket makes any difference to it being notifiable or not.

Not quite:

downlights in a special location: notifiable

mains 240V downlights not in a special location: not notifiable

elv 12V downlights (with trannies) not in a special location: notifiable

This is because elv lighting installations (except CE marked pre assembled sets) are a special installation. See table 2 under general guidance in the approved document.

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Things are not so simple these days . A simple job can turn rather costly and a customer can often think that you are trying it on . However You are the professional and your advice is genuine as regs have to be followed to cover yourself in this finger pointing society in which we live . O)

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Things are not so simple these days . A simple job can turn rather costly and a customer can often think that you are trying it on . However You are the professional and your advice is genuine as regs have to be followed to cover yourself in this finger pointing society in which we live . O)

Spot on there :D

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Not quite:

downlights in a special location: notifiable

mains 240V downlights not in a special location: not notifiable

elv 12V downlights (with trannies) not in a special location: notifiable

This is because elv lighting installations (except CE marked pre assembled sets) are a special installation. See table 2 under general guidance in the approved document.

Good thing i dont install 12V downlights often then

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I come across this constantly and it really gets my back up.

No RCD protection and bonding non existent or not up to standard means I have to quote for a load of work when all the customer wants is a couple of sockets.

Every time I can guarantee that they get someone to just bang a couple of sockets in for cash with no questions.

I wont do that, I just know that the following day something else on the installation would go wrong and I'd ending getting the blame for all of it. Its not worth the risk

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If you modify or alter the cct in any way it immediately becomes notifiable and must conform to the 17th.

If you were replacing like for like without changing socket position then you would have no need to upgrade or notify.

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If you modify or alter the cct in any way it immediately becomes notifiable and must conform to the 17th.

Not quite. Extending an existing cct is not notifiable outside of special locations. So adding a spur, FCU fitting a few downlights does not need to be notified. However your work needs to comply with the 17th edn.

So it would need RCD protecting - but some would just protect the alteration (eg RCD incoperated FCU) and some would divert the whole cct at the cu through a stand alone RCD. There is much debate whether the whole cct needs upgrading or just you alteration, the majority on here lie with just your new work must comply. Assuming, of course, that the wiring was buried in a wall or in a bathroom etc etc.

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Any addition/modification must comply with 7671:2008 & part p. note that complying with part p doesnt always mean notification

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