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Visual inspection coding help


Blue Fox

Question

Hello all,

Been and done a visual inspection for a landlord this evening. Found a couple of problems and wanted to check I've got the coding right. I've put the fault and codeing below. Also could do with some help with a BS number. The fuses were the pop out type made by wylex and are in a metal clad box.

Gas bonding only 6mm - code 2

Water bonding not visible - code 1

Main earth to fuse box 6mm - code 2

Front fuse cover missing from fusebox - code 1 (small fingers could touch live parts)

Kitchen lighting 2 way switching causing 1 light to flash as switch is changed over probably a strapper problem - code 3

Oven cable from oven switch in 2.5mm T+E - code 1 (its on a 30A fuse, could see it as kitchen being refurbed and cooker not connected)

No RCD - Code 4

No supplimentary bonding in bathroom - Code 3

No supplimentary bonding at boiler - code 3

Also several of the socket covers in the kitchen have had the screws removed and are hanging off as its all being retiled - do I need to put this down as they are all going to be refitted properly once the tiles have dried?

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Andy™
Hello all,

Been and done a visual inspection for a landlord this evening. Found a couple of problems and wanted to check I've got the coding right. I've put the fault and codeing below. Also could do with some help with a BS number.generally BS 3871, isolator is probably BS 5943 The fuses were the pop out type made by wylex and are in a metal clad box.

Gas bonding only 6mm - code 2id go with 4 if it shows no signs of thermal damage, otherwise 2. but if its TT, then 6mm is acceptable so no code (unless damaged)

Water bonding not visible - code 1not visible doesnt mean not done. code 3 unless you are cetain it isnt done

Main earth to fuse box 6mm - code 2what size are the tails?

Front fuse cover missing from fusebox - code 1 (small fingers could touch live parts)definitely code 1

Kitchen lighting 2 way switching causing 1 light to flash as switch is changed over probably a strapper problem - code 3

Oven cable from oven switch in 2.5mm T+E - code 1 (its on a 30A fuse, could see it as kitchen being refurbed and cooker not connected)for a fixed load, you dont need overcurrent protection. fault protection is by 30A fuse. no code (unless signs of damage)

No RCD - Code 4no RCD for what?

No supplimentary bonding in bathroom - Code 3how does it require further investigation? code 2, or if all circuits are RCD'd (which im guessing there not), code 4

No supplimentary bonding at boiler - code 3never been an electrical regulation. no code

Also several of the socket covers in the kitchen have had the screws removed and are hanging off as its all being retiled - do I need to put this down as they are all going to be refitted properly once the tiles have dried?code 1 as is, although if your satisfied they will be screwed back properly, ignore this

my red

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i still dont see how a faulty element could overload. worst case would be a short circuit, in which case the MCB would give the fault protection and disconnect the circuit

even on max a thermostat does not allow an element to run at 'max power' to prevent burn-out. So having allowed element to run away with itself it will potentially overload stuff (the scenario presented was more than one element at a time to cuase overload of circuit - unlikely I know)

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You slipped that one in there!

Well done

Applaud Smiley

Beer on you tonight?

Guiness DrinkGuiness DrinkGuiness DrinkGuiness DrinkGuiness DrinkGuiness DrinkGuiness DrinkGuiness DrinkGuiness DrinkGuiness DrinkGuiness Drink

Cheers guys.

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Andy™
even on max a thermostat does not allow an element to run at 'max power' to prevent burn-out. So having allowed element to run away with itself it will potentially overload stuff (the scenario presented was more than one element at a time to cuase overload of circuit - unlikely I know)

i cant see any logic behind that. a heating element is either on or off, (although the thermostat will switch it on and off to maintain correct temp). so how exactly does removing the stat cause the element to draw more current? if it does get too hot (failed stat not turning it off), ohms law states resistance will increase, so if anything, its going to use less power. and possibly burn out, but that doesnt increase load, other than fault current

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Zeespark

Tom an oven is unlikely ever to pull 27amps on its own.

AndyGuiness Drink

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so if an oven pulls 27amps it can be 2.5 t+e and 32mcb?

I would say no as the MCB should protect the cable.

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zee spark.i know just an example cus 2.5 is rated at 27amps

45amp hob would be 25.5 amps with socket, not that it would ever pull it.

russell i would say the same but andy c has it in his quote

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Actually after sleeping on this I see what Andy means - cooker/shower on its own independent circuit is a known load, ergo the cable can either handle it or not. If cable is not overloaded, then MCB / fuse protects against dead short cos that's all you need. Whereas a ring main with half a dozen sockets has far greater potential for overload depending on how many appliances are plugged in at any one time hence cable must be able to withstand full current rating of MCB.

Have to say a cooker I connected recently looked like it was wired in 1.5mm flex as supplied by manufacturer, seemed bloody daft connecting it to 6mm cooker circuit.

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Andy™
so if an oven pulls 27amps it can be 2.5 t+e and 32mcb?

yes, but i wouldnt be too happy with it that close to limit. if it was 20A max, then id be happy with 2.5 on 32A MCB

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nice one, i thought u take load of the appliance, get the closes mcb (this can be higher but not lower) then put in cable rated no lower than the fuse

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Andy™
nice one, i thought u take load of the appliance, get the closes mcb (this can be higher but not lower) then put in cable rated no lower than the fuse

see 433.3 for more info

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see 433.3 for more info

How does an Oven fit into 433.3.3 ? or have I got the wrong end of the stick Blushing

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Andy™

433.3.3 is ommissions of devices for safety reasons. (i.e fire alarms, sprinkler pumps etc)

oven would be 433.3.1 (ii). this would also apply to an electric shower

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Discussed issue with NICEIC man today (I've just passed upgrade to Approved Contractor Guiness DrinkGuiness DrinkGuiness Drink:D:D:D) - cooker can overload circuit,if thermostat goes faulty so not acceptable. Showers however are limited by thermal cut-out which prevents overload so acceptable for this, but not recommended either way.

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How can a faulty thermostat allow a cooker to overload the circuit?

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Well done Binky!!! Nice up here, isn`t it?

IF the stat AND the element had faults, the element could present a lower resistance to the supply; hence overload condition.

I`m still of the opinion that cookers cannot be disregarded under 433.3.1

(sorry) -

Binky - Anything off the "guinness" shelf mate - knock yourself out!!!!!

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Haven`t got my BRB handy, Andy (I like the sound of that!!)

Whats 433.3.1 saying? I can`t envisage a scenario where that would be acceptable.

Scrap the above. I`ve got it here. wait 1

KME

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Andy™

433.3.1 A device for protection againt overload need not be provided:

(ii) for a conductor which, because of the characteristics of the load or supply, it not likely to carry overload current, provided that the conductor is protected againt fault current in accordance with the requirements of section 434

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Ah! So Christmas with all the family, oven`s been on since yesterday evening, all four hotplates going - would not constitute "overload current". The reg. doesn`t specify a duration - it says it isn`t likely to carry overload.

Same for electric shower. If I use your reasoning, a borderline cable is actually ok?

I`m afraid, in my opinion, 433.3.1(ii) does not include cookers, instantaneous showers and the like.

Sorry to be argumentative

Martyn

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Andy™
Well done Binky!!! Nice up here, isn`t it?

IF the stat AND the element had faults, the element could present a lower resistance to the supply; hence overload condition.

I`m still of the opinion that cookers cannot be disregarded under 433.3.1

(sorry) -

Binky - Anything off the "guinness" shelf mate - knock yourself out!!!!!

i still dont see how a faulty element could overload. worst case would be a short circuit, in which case the MCB would give the fault protection and disconnect the circuit

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Andy™
Ah! So Christmas with all the family, oven`s been on since yesterday evening, all four hotplates going - would not constitute "overload current". The reg. doesn`t specify a duration - it says it isn`t likely to carry overload.

Same for electric shower. If I use your reasoning, a borderline cable is actually ok?

I`m afraid, in my opinion, 433.3.1(ii) does not include cookers, instantaneous showers and the like.

Sorry to be argumentative

Martyn

why doesnt 433.3.1(ii) include showers etc? depends how you interpret it i suppose, but when i done my 16th (all those years ago!) this is what lecturer said about it

if something cannot possibly overload (like a shower), then it does fit into 433.3.1 by characteristics of load (in my opinion)

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I see where you are coming from, but to me except where 433.3.3 applies, wouldn't it be better to back the cable with a suitably sized mcb or fuse ?

That way if the cooker or shower is swapped out then the worst case is a tripped breaker.

However back to the original point I guess it is a question of interpretation on how it is coded.

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