Ring vs Radial

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L-E_Fault

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You have been asked to install a new downstairs circuit for the sockets in a domestic property do install a ring or radial, vote now.

 
radials are more flexible and easier to test, is this a true statement?

why do people bother with rings?

4mm radial for kitchen and 2.5 for the rest of the house, is this common now days?

 
I am old fashioned so will carry on putting ring mains in. On rewires one up one down and one for kitchen at least that way you know circuits won't get overloaded.

Batty

 
I am old fashioned so will carry on putting ring mains in. On rewires one up one down and one for kitchen at least that way you know circuits won't get overloaded.Batty
im with batty, ring mains where i can for me aswell, unless certain circumtstances ie a study room where sockets are for computers and accossiated equipment printers etc then id stick radial in that area but usually a ring main for me ;)

 
I am old fashioned so will carry on putting ring mains in. On rewires one up one down and one for kitchen at least that way you know circuits won't get overloaded.Batty
Until some kitchen fitter replaces the sockets and forgets to put both legs back into one leaving effectively a radial with a protective device in excess of the cables current carrying capacity.

I would not be surprised if before long that we harmonised with the rest of the EU and dropped rings too.

Ian.

 
My worry with radials especiallty in new builds is if you do it in 2.5 on a 20 amp circuit it does not give cable much chance. At least with a ring main you have double the cable capacity and for general circuits they are hardly going to be used so should last the life of the cable.

Batty

 
Am currently toying with installing radials and leaving rings all together. Much easier just to pull 4mm radials in all round me thinks. Testing is quicker too.

 
I've never been a fan of rings, not least because the way they're specified and typically installed leaves quite a possibility for overloaded cables in certain scenarios. I think the fact that hardly anywhere outside Britain (and Ireland to a much lesser degree) uses them rather shows how in most places the supposed advantages of rings aren't considered to be sufficient to outweigh the disadvantages.

On rewires one up one down and one for kitchen at least that way you know circuits won't get overloaded.
I know that seems to be a common arrangement these days, but I don't understand the logic. The argument I usually hear is that we need more than one ring these days, so in a two-story house it's easiest to wire one for upstairs, one for downstairs. That in itself isn't going to give particularly even distribution when the downstairs ring will have all the kitchen and laundry appliances on it while the upstairs ring is probably running nothing more than a few bedside lamps, electric blankets, and a TV or computer. In a modern house with central-heating, it's not even likely that a portable heater will be used on the upstairs ring.

Then the argument goes that loads in kitchens are getting heavier, with increased use of dishwashers, dryers, microwave ovens, etc. so we need to split it further and add another ring. But why then still keep all the kitchen appliances on one ring? All that happens then is that the ring for the rest of the downstairs of the house ends up with little more load than the upstairs ring, while the bulk of the 2 & 3kW appliances remain on the kitchen ring.

If we're going to use two or more omnibus rings for everything rather than providing dedicated circuits for the major appliances as is done in most other countries, then it will result in a much better distribution of load to do something like a front/rear split instead of upstairs/downstairs, and to distribute the sockets in the heavy load area of the kitchen & utility room between the rings.

 
If we're going to use two or more omnibus rings for everything rather than providing dedicated circuits for the major appliances as is done in most other countries, then it will result in a much better distribution of load to do something like a front/rear split instead of upstairs/downstairs,
This is what I've already done, as I've mentioned before, and I have never understodd where this upstairs\downstairs ring comes from. It is very rare to see a new property wired as upstairs\downstairs ring and anyone wiring rings as such clearly isn;t thinking about the job.

 
I've never been a fan of rings, not least because the way they're specified and typically installed leaves quite a possibility for overloaded cables in certain scenarios. I think the fact that hardly anywhere outside Britain (and Ireland to a much lesser degree) uses them rather shows how in most places the supposed advantages of rings aren't considered to be sufficient to outweigh the disadvantages.I know that seems to be a common arrangement these days, but I don't understand the logic. The argument I usually hear is that we need more than one ring these days, so in a two-story house it's easiest to wire one for upstairs, one for downstairs. That in itself isn't going to give particularly even distribution when the downstairs ring will have all the kitchen and laundry appliances on it while the upstairs ring is probably running nothing more than a few bedside lamps, electric blankets, and a TV or computer. In a modern house with central-heating, it's not even likely that a portable heater will be used on the upstairs ring.

Then the argument goes that loads in kitchens are getting heavier, with increased use of dishwashers, dryers, microwave ovens, etc. so we need to split it further and add another ring. But why then still keep all the kitchen appliances on one ring? All that happens then is that the ring for the rest of the downstairs of the house ends up with little more load than the upstairs ring, while the bulk of the 2 & 3kW appliances remain on the kitchen ring.

If we're going to use two or more omnibus rings for everything rather than providing dedicated circuits for the major appliances as is done in most other countries, then it will result in a much better distribution of load to do something like a front/rear split instead of upstairs/downstairs, and to distribute the sockets in the heavy load area of the kitchen & utility room between the rings.
But its all about design are people likely to have all the appliances on at one time very unlikely I think. As said if you put enough circuits in they are never going to be overloaded and with all the insulation two times 2.5 on a 32 has got to be better than 1 x 2.5 on a 20 amp circuit.

Batty

 
But its all about design are people likely to have all the appliances on at one time very unlikely I think.
I wouldn't think it that unusual where somebody is doing a double load of laundry to take one load from the washer and put into the dryer, then start the second load immediately in the washer. There's 6kW before they then go off to start defrosting dinner in the microwave oven and boiling the kettle to make some tea.

 
I wouldn't think it that unusual where somebody is doing a double load of laundry to take one load from the washer and put into the dryer, then start the second load immediately in the washer. There's 6kW before they then go off to start defrosting dinner in the microwave oven and boiling the kettle to make some tea.
Sounds like a Sunday afternoon round mine!

 
I wouldn't think it that unusual where somebody is doing a double load of laundry to take one load from the washer and put into the dryer, then start the second load immediately in the washer. There's 6kW before they then go off to start defrosting dinner in the microwave oven and boiling the kettle to make some tea.
But if you had designed that right you would have had a ring main for machines and another for the other sockets in the kitchen. Well I would anyway.

Batty

 
General domestic - 1 or 2 radials for the house (excluding kitchen) - and a ring for the kitchen. If there is a large kitchen / and utility, then two rings, or a ring and a radial. Depends on too many factors to give definitive answer.

KME

 
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