Can an electrician legally turn off an installation that he/she considers to be dange
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Help Support Talk Electrician Forum:
I'm not quite sure if this is following on exactly from the end of the other thread, but this question is slightly different to the end of that so doesn;t quite tie up.
Someone said you have a legal obligation to isolate the installation. You're asking if you can legally isolate it, to which the answer is yes as long as you are there and authorised to work on the installation. If a customer calls you up and says there is a problem, can you come and fix it then you can turn off the main switch and there you go, installation isolated.
Whether you have a legal obligation to do the above, well that depends on where you are and who you are for a start.
Someone said you have a legal obligation to isolate the installation. You're asking if you can legally isolate it, to which the answer is yes as long as you are there and authorised to work on the installation. If a customer calls you up and says there is a problem, can you come and fix it then you can turn off the main switch and there you go, installation isolated.
Whether you have a legal obligation to do the above, well that depends on where you are and who you are for a start.
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Yes but the homeowner could turn it back on again.
If Steps had his way he'd have most peoples main fuses in his van and a lot of earth rods to drive............
I'm not sure what to vote for in the poll, not sure how I can prove that I can legally turn of the main switch, but I can;t not prove that I can (or is that can;t?) and I also can;t disprove that I can;t (or is that can?), or something else.
Basically, I can legally isolate the installation, in the same way I can legally turn over the channel on my TV. Not sure how I can prove either.
Basically, I can legally isolate the installation, in the same way I can legally turn over the channel on my TV. Not sure how I can prove either.
a1
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:^OIf Steps had his way he'd have most peoples main fuses in his van
Just been reading Lurch's reply on another thread about the Gas. Interesting how they can remove the meter? :|
I don't think they're allowed to do that Lurch? Surely?!
But there again, Nothing suprises me when it comes to Gas. After all, that is the only type of energy that can kill. Not!
Theorysparky
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As i understand it you can turn the the installation off,,,,,then advise the DNO
and they can do it officially
i only think this as a sparky told me he went this route a few years back
and they can do it officially
i only think this as a sparky told me he went this route a few years back
I consider this an interesting and thought-provoking poll; especially when I **think** I agree with:
Admin: I think "Turn off" needs clarification.
Yes, of course you can legally "Turn off" a supply.
But "isolating" it? {as per t`other thread}? Probably not legally.
I`m of the same thought path as Theo on this, maybe.
However, circumstances have to play a part. In the Rev`s case, it was a rented property, and the incoming visitors wouldn`t know anything was amiss, until something occurred (bad way to find out, IMO). In that situation, maybe with prior conversation to DNO, removal of main fuse (which doesn`t belong to customer OR tenant) could be an option. Maybe not legal, but if you`ve prevented a possible fatality............
Other option - remove busbar. As sparx, we should be capable of safely de-energising dangerous installations, one way or another.
KME
( at least, I think I agree. I`ll be sure once I understand the double (triple?) negatives inter-relational effects!)
Admin: I think "Turn off" needs clarification.
Yes, of course you can legally "Turn off" a supply.
But "isolating" it? {as per t`other thread}? Probably not legally.
I`m of the same thought path as Theo on this, maybe.
However, circumstances have to play a part. In the Rev`s case, it was a rented property, and the incoming visitors wouldn`t know anything was amiss, until something occurred (bad way to find out, IMO). In that situation, maybe with prior conversation to DNO, removal of main fuse (which doesn`t belong to customer OR tenant) could be an option. Maybe not legal, but if you`ve prevented a possible fatality............
Other option - remove busbar. As sparx, we should be capable of safely de-energising dangerous installations, one way or another.
KME
ianmacd
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Lets look at this another way.
You have a duty of care as an electrician. If someone were to die from a dangerous install that you failed to isolate after you identified a danger then you could be charged with the offence of Involuntary Manslaughter by Gross Negligence.
OK I have proved it so can I change my vote please?
You have a duty of care as an electrician. If someone were to die from a dangerous install that you failed to isolate after you identified a danger then you could be charged with the offence of Involuntary Manslaughter by Gross Negligence.
OK I have proved it so can I change my vote please?
PC Electrics
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On the back of the NICs 'Danger Notice' paragraph 2 of the notes reads:
"Appropriate action needs to be taken immediately to remove the danger. The action taken (such as switching off and isolating the affected part(s) until remedied) should be recorded overleaf."
That's my bold.
This would suggest that it is perfectly legal for an electrical contractor to take whatever action he considers necessary to remove immediate danger including turning off and isolating if that is warranted. Indeed, I believe this suggests that he should consider such action.
I was going to attach a copy of the notice, but it's too big a file.
"Appropriate action needs to be taken immediately to remove the danger. The action taken (such as switching off and isolating the affected part(s) until remedied) should be recorded overleaf."
That's my bold.
This would suggest that it is perfectly legal for an electrical contractor to take whatever action he considers necessary to remove immediate danger including turning off and isolating if that is warranted. Indeed, I believe this suggests that he should consider such action.
I was going to attach a copy of the notice, but it's too big a file.
1 moment - on its way.........
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As provided on the NICEIC "XNN" electrical danger notices `info` page.....
I think that answers the question?
I think that answers the question?
Close `pache - same horse, different jockey!
Sod "pushy-shovey"; that was "rammy-rammy"!
You just linked, I had to find, scan, rotate, change format, upload to photobucket, name, get links, come back and post. Whew. I`m knackered just typing it out......
im not sure if you can legally isolate or not - you can advise it be isolated, and maybe isolate, but there is nothing to stop customer then turning it back on. as far as i know, you can only legally isolate with permission. if they wont let you isolate, then you can only call DNO, who can legally isolate if necessary (which could work out worse for customer - rather than have one circuit isolated, they may end up with no power at all)
As per last para. on my post #13
PC Electrics
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http://www.esc.org.uk/pdfs/business-and-community/electrical-industry/BPG4_08.pdf
Take a look at the last para of page 6, and the first 3 paras of page 7.
"Where, during the course of inspection or testing, a real and immediate danger is found to be present in an installation (from an exposed live part, for example), immediate action will be necessary to make it safe before continuing.
Contractors should note that, even in domestic premises, Section 3 of the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 and the Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 effectively require them to endeavour to make safe, before leaving site and with the agreement of the user or owner, any dangerous conditions found in an installation. For example, where blanks are missing from a consumer unit, suitable temporary barriers should be installed to protect persons from direct contact with live parts.
It is not sufficient simply to draw attention to the danger when submitting the periodic inspection report. At the very least, the inspector must ensure that the client is made aware at the time of discovery of the danger that exists. An agreement should be made with the client as to the appropriate action to be taken to remove the source of danger (for example, by switching off and isolating the affected part of the installation until remedied), before continuing with the inspection or testing."
Take a look at the last para of page 6, and the first 3 paras of page 7.
"Where, during the course of inspection or testing, a real and immediate danger is found to be present in an installation (from an exposed live part, for example), immediate action will be necessary to make it safe before continuing.
Contractors should note that, even in domestic premises, Section 3 of the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 and the Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 effectively require them to endeavour to make safe, before leaving site and with the agreement of the user or owner, any dangerous conditions found in an installation. For example, where blanks are missing from a consumer unit, suitable temporary barriers should be installed to protect persons from direct contact with live parts.
It is not sufficient simply to draw attention to the danger when submitting the periodic inspection report. At the very least, the inspector must ensure that the client is made aware at the time of discovery of the danger that exists. An agreement should be made with the client as to the appropriate action to be taken to remove the source of danger (for example, by switching off and isolating the affected part of the installation until remedied), before continuing with the inspection or testing."
oi you,Yes but the homeowner could turn it back on again. If Steps had his way he'd have most peoples main fuses in his van and a lot of earth rods to drive............
pig plumber you
NIC dont make the rules....As provided on the NICEIC "XNN" electrical danger notices `info` page.....
I think that answers the question?
although Nr ii does just that, = the action taken was to remove the main fuse from the cutout.
but I would like a court to tell me that what I had done was illegal,
and I will have a look at beginning of week at EAW and Im sure it will be there.
spinlondon
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The only people that are allowed to disconnect a supply. are representatives of the DNO and Police and Fire Officers in an emergency.
WRONG
and I will go to court on this subject,
anyone having reasonable cause can do so
