Government website re part p

[professional]

Well said Green Hornet.And now for my two-penneth: -

I object to Part P on principle, and refuse to join any money-making scheme until it's fair, and accross the board.

As a sole-trader, I would have to pay the full annual membership to one of the "bodies" to be interrogated for an hour or so, and be signed off.

YET, the local big boys down the road from me, employing around 30 chimps have maybe 3 or 4 Qualified Supervisors. Most "chimps" don't ever get a grilling, and rarely get their work tested or inspected by their company's "qualified Supervisor(s)" I've lost count of the times I've found fault with their work - often potentially fatal errors and omissions, but my voice means nothing. Only this week I was asked to "change" one of my inspection failures by a "Qualified Supervisor" who had no knowledge of the job I'd just failed.

So this is my main gripe against Part P, it's one rule for the big boys, and one rule for me, mr. Sole Trader. I have to pay the full yearly membership to be involved, but a chimp can do the same work without actual supervision or membership.

My personal view - Part P does NOT improve electrical safety, it is merely a money grabbing scheme initialted by NICEIC to boost membership. Ill thought-out, and poorly run by all involved, it has done absolutely nothing to reduce the dangers of Domestic Installation Work.

Part P, coupled with the now prevalent 4-6 week "Fully Qualified Electrician Courses" have done a great deal of harm to a once highly respected trade.

If Part P were to be scrapped ( oh, how I wish!), what system would you like to see in place to ensure standards?

Personally, I think an individual licensing system would be the best direction to go, with a FULL license required for all but new build where a strictly controlled QS system could be allowed ........

It is no good moaning about a system, no matter how flawed, unless you are prepared to come up with ideas about a system to replace it - because, like it or not, there WILL be a system of some sort.

 

[wozz]

i like your idea prof, could you expand a bit on the strictly controlled QS system.

I think the current QS system is a utter joke.

 

[Sidewinder]

You may be right, in which case I stand corrected, but certainly when CORGI ruled (when I did my last DIY gas work) it was certainly legal to DIY your own gas.

It is still legal to do your own gas work as long as you can prove that you are competent in the event of any "problems" came direct from Gas Safe

 

[professional]

i like your idea prof, could you expand a bit on the strictly controlled QS system. I think the current QS system is a utter joke.

License Grade 1 - unable to work unsupervised.

License Grade 2 - able to work unsupervised within a QS system (FULLY qualified spark).

License Grade 3 - able to verify as a QS OR sole trader i.e to work totally independantly (FULLY QUALIFIED SPARK WITH C&G 2391).

Any QS would be able to set up on their own since they would already meet the requirements to be a sole trader.

 

[Sidewinder]

License Grade 1 - unable to work unsupervised.License Grade 2 - able to work unsupervised within a QS system (FULLY qualified spark).

License Grade 3 - able to verify as a QS OR sole trader i.e to work totally independantly (FULLY QUALIFIED SPARK WITH C&G 2391).

Any QS would be able to set up on their own since they would already meet the requirements to be a sole trader.

Like that, it has its faults but not bad as a starting shot!

 

[green-hornet]

License Grade 1 - unable to work unsupervised.License Grade 2 - able to work unsupervised within a QS system (FULLY qualified spark).

License Grade 3 - able to verify as a QS OR sole trader i.e to work totally independantly (FULLY QUALIFIED SPARK WITH C&G 2391).

Any QS would be able to set up on their own since they would already meet the requirements to be a sole trader.

Its a very good starting point, and should have been discussed at the outset of Part P for example. JIB cards run an almost identical system based on qualifications, maybe this is the way forward without getting into old arguments about effectiveness of any legislation.

If people in power actually listened to us and our ideas then maybe, just maybe, things could be better improved.

 

[fezz]

OOPS, yes professional, your quite right. Got carried away with my usual rant and forgot to mention that I would DEFINITELY join any scheme in which all sparkies were required to be licenced / approved (as in Gas Safe etc). Then the "Big Boys" could not flout the rules with their one or two supervisors, and the majority of the cowboys would also struggle without an I.D badge. I personally think this kind of scheme would catch-on in a similar way that CORGI originally did.

Superb idea regarding the license grading system, but how on earth could anyone take on the scheme providers to get the whole system changed???.

If Part P were to be scrapped ( oh, how I wish!), what system would you like to see in place to ensure standards?Personally, I think an individual licensing system would be the best direction to go, with a FULL license required for all but new build where a strictly controlled QS system could be allowed ........

It is no good moaning about a system, no matter how flawed, unless you are prepared to come up with ideas about a system to replace it - because, like it or not, there WILL be a system of some sort.

 

[professional]

Rather than fighting the (much abused) QS system - why not just insist that ANY workplace must be closely, visually supervised by a QS (i.e a qualified spark with 2391). Sole traders would already have their 2391 so could operate their own version when required i.e. need a hand on a re-wire etc.

The big boys, I`m sure, would be prepared to have a QS present during EVERY rewire. ]

Also, you should not be allowed to take the 2391 until you are a qualified spark - that way insisting on 2391 would actually mean something i.e. retired engineers would have to PROVE their competence to install before telling everyone else what they are doing wrong.

Of course, defined scope should be consigned to the bin ............

 

[professional]

Its a very good starting point, and should have been discussed at the outset of Part P for example. JIB cards run an almost identical system based on qualifications, maybe this is the way forward without getting into old arguments about effectiveness of any legislation.If people in power actually listened to us and our ideas then maybe, just maybe, things could be better improved.

You only get listened to if you have representation.