Going Back To work

[binky]

In the context I think the, "do-gooders", John is referring to are those who advocate not disciplining young children but leaving them to run wild if they so desire, ignoring any attempts to correct them, so that they grow up believing this is acceptable.
To me, this flies in the face of common sense and certainly does not improve society..
Everyone accepts that a puppy has to be trained to produce a well behaved adult dog, so why are humans any different?.

I don't think you will find anyone who believes in letting children run free amoungst the 'do gooders', parents are another matter... The difference today is that we don't beat children into submission, same as we don't beat puppies either. You can achieve well behaved, well rounded adults (and dogs) by 'positive reinforcement' ie give a certain amount of praise for behaving well, and remove priviliges for bad behaviour. Biggest problem is a lot of parents seem to think their children are 'angels' and 'princesses', and their role is to be a friend to their children, not a parent. Grand parents can be just as bad, how many have you heard say the love to 'spoil' their grandchildren. How you change that attitude I've no idea. Some dog owners need to learn this lesson too.

 

[johnb2713]

In the context I think the, "do-gooders", John is referring to are those who advocate not disciplining young children but leaving them to run wild if they so desire, ignoring any attempts to correct them, so that they grow up believing this is acceptable.
To me, this flies in the face of common sense and certainly does not improve society..
Everyone accepts that a puppy has to be trained to produce a well behaved adult dog, so why are humans any different?.

Absolutely correct.
I accept respect has to be earned BUT you start early and get respect through fear i.e. cane, smacking etc, short, sharp lesson that gets children back on the straight and narrow. When I worked in school caning was not allowed of course but when I went to school it definitely was and it was easy see just how effective it was. Our school did the caning on the stage during morning assembly in front of the whole school, there were very few repeat offenders. Whilst working at school I witnessed chairs being thrown across a room at a teacher, a belt been taken off with a heavy brass buckle and used to threaten staff and damage equipment, girls being held with knives at their throats and all that happened to the offender was they were suspended for a few days.

 

[johnb2713]

I don't think you will find anyone who believes in letting children run free amoungst the 'do gooders'

Trust me, you do.

parents are another matter... The difference today is that we don't beat children into submission, same as we don't beat puppies either.

Many parents dont discipline children, there are those that dont discipline dogs either. Both stick and carrot are needed for effective training.

You can achieve well behaved, well rounded adults (and dogs) by 'positive reinforcement' ie give a certain amount of praise for behaving well, and remove priviliges for bad behaviour.

Ok, answer this, unruly kids at school, what privileges are you going to remove? Remember the school can no longer exclude the little darlings and the teachers cant do anything eg they're disruptive in class, they wont leave the class when instructed to do so, the other 29 students are denied their education due to this one individual, how do you deal with this situation with your positive reinforcement?

Biggest problem is a lot of parents seem to think their children are 'angels' and 'princesses', and their role is to be a friend to their children, not a parent. Grand parents can be just as bad, how many have you heard say the love to 'spoil' their grandchildren. How you change that attitude I've no idea. Some dog owners need to learn this lesson too.

Surely you rely on your positive reinforcement? I personally don't believe it will work universally but I'm interested to hear how you would resolve such issues.

 

[mort2376]

Please let's not turn what was a harmless bit of fun into a fallout debate.

 

[johnb2713]

Please let's not turn what was a harmless bit of fun into a fallout debate.

No intention of that, having seen first hand how school used to be and how it is now along with the positive reinforcement type comments which on face of it is the right way, the reality is it just does not work. In adult life, there is no positive reinforcement only the stick if you misbehave / get it wrong.

 

[mort2376]

I know what you mean John as I used to work in a school too. And agree with what your saying but on here these issues get blown up and heated debate and arguments spoil the friendly atmosphere.

 

[johnb2713]

I know what you mean John as I used to work in a school too. And agree with what your saying but on here these issues get blown up and heated debate and arguments spoil the friendly atmosphere.

OH NO THEY DONT

Oh yes they do

Well it is coming up to that time of year

Apologies to all concerned if it looked like we were heading to World War 4, not my intention at all.

 

[kerching]

Wife works in a primary school. Although not a teacher she is the HLTA and reaches 5 hours a day 5 days a week. Quite often she will volunteer for the 1:1 with a difficult child
We had a chart on the fridge, similar to

Monday
1c
3b
2 I

So on the Monday she had 1 chair, 3 books and 2 computers thrown at her!

This is a little church school in a nice town

 

[surrey bloke]

I thought it was funny

 

[binky]

Apologies to all concerned if it looked like we were heading to World War 4, not my intention at all.

Post your opinion Mumsnet if you want that

I went to a grammar school run by the Christian Brothers, a sort of monk order. They very much worked on 'spare the rod, spoil the child' mentality. One managed to break a child's wrist. Absolutely abusive bastards, and why I am very much against corporal punishment. There are better ways of raising children, albeit that can be harder as you have to put the work in.

 

[johnb2713]

Post your opinion Mumsnet if you want that

I went to a grammar school run by the Christian Brothers, a sort of monk order. They very much worked on 'spare the rod, spoil the child' mentality. One managed to break a child's wrist. Absolutely abusive bastards, and why I am very much against corporal punishment.

Clearly thats abuse

There are better ways of raising children, albeit that can be harder as you have to put the work in.

We need to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Fleeting]

Like many on here I'm sure you remember the cane being administered and the days of corporal punishment are gone, good or bad who knows.
The deputy head at my secondary school was the feared Mr McCully a good and fair teacher I realise now. Should you end up standing in the corridor after misbehaving in class then the sound of his shoes clicking down the corridor sent terror through you. His punishment after the cane was stopped was to attend one of his karate classes which he held in and out of school. I never fell to this punishment but many did and several of those continued the classes, martial arts are a great way of giving children discipline and in later years I became a black belt in Tai Kwon Do.

 

[apprentice87]

One thing that REALLY pisses me off is idiots [and you get plenty on here too] that talk like idiots. "My sister gifted me a car" NO, they gave you a car or gave you a gift.. Or; "I changed out the batteries" NO, you replaced the ******* things. etc etc etc..

john..

 

[David R Connell]

One thing that REALLY pisses me off is idiots [and you get plenty on here too] that talk like idiots. "My sister gifted me a car" NO, they gave you a car or gave you a gift.. Or; "I changed out the batteries" NO, you replaced the ******* things. etc etc etc..

john..

Even with the substitute ******it still made me smile.

 

[Fleeting]

"Guys" that is a word that bugs the butt off me. They use it in schools and I hear my neighbours child who is around nine saying to her friends in the garden "hey guys".

 

[bladerunnerpv]

Person goes to buy a coffee and asks "Can I get a large latte please?"
I would love to hear a reply from the barista along the lines of "No that's my job"
How language changes !

or in F1 commentary ...the McClaren of Lando Norris... ugh!

On the plus side kids learn about adverbs and stuff like that now

 

[johnb2713]

Or the air hostess:

Hostess: "Would you like a drink sir?"
Passenger: "Whats the choice?"
Hostess: "Yes or no"