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Domestic Inspection and Testing Help


tallpault

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I have been asked to price up remedials from a pir.

The electrician who carried out the testing has put on the cert that the installation is satisfactory on the front page,but in the summary of the installation has put satisfactory once the remedials have been carried out.

1 consumer unit should be upgraded to rcd protection code 2

2 cables inside db in connector and needs repaired code 1

3 main di tails are damaged code 2

4 all wiring in consumer unit needs improvement code 2

5 no main bond to water and gas code 2

6 no hard wired smokies code 2

7 socket on landing is unswitched code 2

8 16a mcb feeding 1mm2 t&e code2/3

9 lighting circuits doubled up at db code 2

10 cooker circuit is suppling twin socket on a 32a mcb code 2

11 spur for shed is mounted surface on a flush box code 2

12 main earth has been trimmed at db code 2

13 pattress for shower is broken code 2

14 shower switch connections are exposed and require improvement code 1

15 socket in shed is damaged code 2

Dont really agree with some of the codes that have been issued,but the landlord is asking me to price up the work for him.

The testing electrician has given him a price for all of the repairs and another spark has made him aware that not all of the repairs need done,some are just going over the top.

My question is if i carried out the repairs i felt were unsafe would that be adequate or because the way the tester has worded it would all of the repairs require to be done.

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Some of those codes make me laugh!

socket on landing is unswitched code 2

so?

cooker circuit is suppling twin socket on a 32a mcb code 2

don't almost all electric cooker swiches have a single or double socket?

consumer unit should be upgraded to rcd protection code 2

regs arn't retrospective!

grr

someone's making work for themselves :|

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Any code 1 would be an automatic unsatisfactory.

I think the original tester is not up to date with testing or assesment.

"3 main di tails are damaged code 2" any damaged cables would be code 1.

"7 socket on landing is unswitched code 2" cough!!!!

"8 16a mcb feeding 1mm2 t&e code2/3" where a tester finds codes of two the highest is the only one that needs to be placed on the certificate.

"10 cooker circuit is suppling twin socket on a 32a mcb code 2" I have no idea what he is saying here?

Also the next ones are ambigious to say the least.

"13 pattress for shower is broken code 2" any fixture that is broken would automatically get a code 1.

"14 14 shower switch connections are exposed and require improvement code 1" require improvement is a code 2, requires urgent attention is code 1 any exposed terminals will be code 1.

"15 socket in shed is damaged code 2" this is a code 1.

There is no way a PIR would be signed off as satisfactory with code 1's.

I would be tempted to do a full test, because this tester is obviously inexperianced, and would or could have missed some more serious problems with this installtion.

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I have been asked to price up remedials from a pir.

The electrician who carried out the testing has put on the cert that the installation is satisfactory on the front page,but in the summary of the installation has put satisfactory once the remedials have been carried out.

This is in essence what is written in the model forms In BS7671!

check page 337, next inspection box....

providing urgent observations are attended to without delay!

However NICEIC guidance always said that Code 1 must be Unsatisfactory..

now I understand they recommend Code 1 or 2 should be Unsatisfactory!!!!

1 consumer unit should be upgraded to rcd protection code 2

erm?

something more like Absence of RCD protection for sockets likely to be used outdoors may be more appropriate for code 2.......

But if RCD sockets are fitted then no code for that aspect??

New work & alterations would need RCD...

other wise it could be argued its code 4 ?

2 cables inside db in connector and needs repaired code 1

???? language grammer... wot are we actually saying here???

3 main di tails are damaged code 2

replace tails? guess

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1st Point to be made is, as others ,including yourself have said, The P.I.R has not been carried out to a competant standard .

Best advise is to try and get the customer to agree to you carrying out a further P.I.R.

If the customer does not agree with that recommendation then ask him which items contained in the P.I.R he wishes you to attend to.

When you have completed all the work he has requested ,you issue an E.I.C for the work stating just what you have done. You are under no obligation to do all the work unless requested by the customer. The installation can still contain some of the original Electricians required remedial work-not done- its up to the customer. you just enter the details in The Comments on Existing Installation Box. You will only be certificating the work requested by the customer.

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wow... a connector in a suitable enclosure is more dangerous than no earth to gas/water?

someone sounds desperate for work.... very few of them actually make sense, and many shouldnt even be there at all....

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1st Point to be made is, as others ,including yourself have said, The P.I.R has not been carried out to a competant standard .

Best advise is to try and get the customer to agree to you carrying out a further P.I.R.

If the customer does not agree with that recommendation then ask him which items contained in the P.I.R he wishes you to attend to.

When you have completed all the work he has requested ,you issue an E.I.C for the work stating just what you have done. You are under no obligation to do all the work unless requested by the customer. The installation can still contain some of the original Electricians required remedial work-not done- its up to the customer. you just enter the details in The Comments on Existing Installation Box. You will only be certificating the work requested by the customer.

well put!Applaud SmileyApplaud SmileyApplaud Smiley

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wow... a connector in a suitable enclosure is more dangerous than no earth to gas/water?

someone sounds desperate for work.... very few of them actually make sense, and many shouldnt even be there at all....

concur!

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I strongly suspect that this PIR has been carried out by someone with very little knowledge of PIR`s and even less actual training. The sooner the national register for people recognised to carry out PIR`s is set up the better - and for the more cycnical amongst us, the QS system will NOT be valid for the puposes of carrying out said PIR`s...........

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The testing electrician has given him a price for all of the repairs and another spark has made him aware that not all of the repairs need done,some are just going over the top.

So landlord is fishing for low price, hence you are the 3 rd spark in.

My question is if i carried out the repairs i felt were unsafe would that be adequate or because the way the tester has worded it would all of the repairs require to be done.

As pointed out previous the codes issued are mostly bull, but you could just EIC your repairs.

I would go in on a slightly different tack - point out to customer how much is complete bull, and what actually needs doing -quote for this work. This should give a relatively low price, but do point out that having seen what an incompetent prat the tester was, that some repairs will require re-testing certain parts of the circuits and may reveal further defects. Most landlords, in my experience, like competent accurrate advice that avoids expense where poss aswell as keeping them legal. Those that just want a cetificate at the lowest price are best avoided.

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Unless the client agrees in writing for you to inspect it again yourself don't have anything more to do with it!, and remember once he's accepted your price there's the

seven day cooling off period for him to change his mind, if you carry out any works during the seven days and he has'nt agreed in writing for you to do so he can legally refuse to pay!

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Socket on landing unswitched........landlords property......

if the property is rented out to housing benefit tenants then the council require all sockets to be switched.

well the council round here do,,,,,,,perhaps the testing sparking new this

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Socket on landing unswitched........landlords property......

if the property is rented out to housing benefit tenants then the council require all sockets to be switched.

well the council round here do,,,,,,,perhaps the testing sparking new this

but you should be testing to 7671, not council specs

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Not round here, Sefton, they dont, They require all sockets to have double pole isolation, which means either double pole switch or no switch. Apparently some dopey gas man switched off a single pole (phase only) isolating socket and got himself a neutral shock.

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Not round here, Sefton, they dont, They require all sockets to have double pole isolation, which means either double pole switch or no switch. Apparently some dopey gas man switched off a single pole (phase only) isolating socket and got himself a neutral shock.

neutral shock???

that would imply some other fault surely?

neutral would be at earth potential...

was this socket wired back to front L & N reversed?

Still should do "SAFE ISOLATION" anyway.:|

Inspection & testing is still verifying compliance with BS7671 though!;)

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I agree with Binky. But to back yourself up, show this to the client:

http://www.esc.org.uk/pdfs/business-and-community/electrical-industry/BPG4_08.pdf

Assess the original PIR against this 'best practice' and point out to the client the shortfalls. You could suggest to the customer that you could do another PIR (properly this time) and repair items you find as 1 or 2 (with EIC or MWCs as required) and that the client should recover any fee paid to this other 'sparky'.

Item 6 has nowt to do with 7671. And isn't 1mm t&e rated as 16A when clipped direct anyway?

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