Government website re part p

[m4tty]

Hi,

if you click on link then put 'part p' is the search box quite a few threads on part p and calling for it to be scrapped.

Thought someone may be interested.

Cheers

http://yourfreedom.hmg.gov.uk/@@search?text=Part+p

 

[paul b b]

I actually think part Pee is a good thing, like gas safe, yes there are cowboys out there who would be less qualified than the guy who would do a bad job, but i bet there are some less qualified who would do a better job and some old timeres are still on the 15th!

my main problem is with the general publics knowladge of part pee, no one would (well not many) atempt to put a gas boiler/fire in themselves, so maybe the goverment could do a bit more PR with it and make sure people know there insurance etc would be void if works carried out was not up to scratch, therefore forcing them into getting the relevent guy in to do the work rather than daisy chaining themselves.

If the guy is more conserned about the qualifcations then he should be calling for part pee to up there scams to a more relevent qual, this would stop the 5 week wonders (like myself i hasen to add).

would be intresting to get the time served/old timer's view on part pee.

oh, he also said he has seen a gas safe guy condem a good boiler, how does he know is was good? did he test it? is he gas safe? is he calling for gas safe to be scrapped? is he just a whinging Curmudgeon?

jes i sound like a Curmudgeon too!

 

[PC Electrics]

What a moaning old g1t!

He's obviously just P'd off that he can't do some work in his own home that he feels he's "more qualified" to do.

If he put a little of his efforts into talking to his LABC, given his knowledge (assuming he can back it up) they may accept his certs and reduce their fee.

 

[Bacon]

But why should i have to pay the LBC for work in my own home if my quals were produced to them to view.

And on a side note if i did any work for friends or family and they have knowledge of my quals then say

 

[jl-heating]

just because someone is qualified does not mean that the can do the job to a safe standard.

a diyer with electical knowledge will not have the equipment to test and certify the work, he will not have the latest up to date legislation at hand so therefore cant work to that standard.

if you are not in a scheme you should not touch any electrical work as you not only putting yourself at risk also the property owner and his house at risk.

i come across loads of people who think they can do the job, it dont tak long to shoot them down in flames .. just mention pfc or max zs of a circuit ... or ze and potential or max tripping times of an rcd ...

 

[green-hornet]

Old timers veiw? well as I am 50 next birthday I will give my honest veiw.

Part P I thought was going to be a life saver, I thought it would put an end to all the shoddy work I have witnessed over the years, I did not mind at the time that I had to prove my competancy because I would have expected it.

To me it was going to stop all the cowboys.

Real life?

WRONG

5 day wonders!

I thought at the time there is no way anyone could learn anything of any use in 5 weeks, I still do not believe they can, it can however help some to get on the road to becomming a very good electrician but it takes experiance and humilty to do this.

Snobbery!

I have come across this all my working life, some electricians think they are the dogs do da's, I just laugh because they are the ones who would fail any on the spot examination simply because they are unwilling to learn and think they are 100% right all the time.

How is the trade going to go?

Very soon there will have to be some legislation to prevent electrical work being carried out by unqualified people, this would involve a massive shake up with Part P, in its present form it is impossible to enforce or regulate, all scheme providers are doing the bare minimum to help enforce and are far too laid back to take any proactive measures that are required.

You will find by laws still legal that require you to dismount a horse when going through a certain village, Part P will become one of those defunct by laws forgotten by a progressive society.

So as an old timer I guess I have seen our trade dragged through the mud, legislated beyond belief and abused by so many who think that if they watch an electrician installing some cables they can do the job.

As for all the updates to regulations, I will say that electrical science has never changed in all the years it has been used, so why, oh why, do we all need to pay everytime an update appears? Its the very same calculations and cables just an idea some office geek has that 4mm will not now work so lets use 10mm, its poo every earth cable can be calculated so that a 4mm earth will clear all possible faults just the same as a 16mm will, but then again we are money making machines are we not, we pay our dues and almost never complain, well not to those we should be complaining to.

 

[m4tty]

Well said mate

 

[professional]

Well, I`ve had my say on that site.

 

[Megaohm7]

Old timers veiw? well as I am 50 next birthday I will give my honest veiw.Part P I thought was going to be a life saver, I thought it would put an end to all the shoddy work I have witnessed over the years, I did not mind at the time that I had to prove my competancy because I would have expected it.

To me it was going to stop all the cowboys.

Real life?

WRONG

5 day wonders!

I thought at the time there is no way anyone could learn anything of any use in 5 weeks, I still do not believe they can, it can however help some to get on the road to becomming a very good electrician but it takes experiance and humilty to do this.

Snobbery!

I have come across this all my working life, some electricians think they are the dogs do da's, I just laugh because they are the ones who would fail any on the spot examination simply because they are unwilling to learn and think they are 100% right all the time.

How is the trade going to go?

Very soon there will have to be some legislation to prevent electrical work being carried out by unqualified people, this would involve a massive shake up with Part P, in its present form it is impossible to enforce or regulate, all scheme providers are doing the bare minimum to help enforce and are far too laid back to take any proactive measures that are required.

You will find by laws still legal that require you to dismount a horse when going through a certain village, Part P will become one of those defunct by laws forgotten by a progressive society.

So as an old timer I guess I have seen our trade dragged through the mud, legislated beyond belief and abused by so many who think that if they watch an electrician installing some cables they can do the job.

As for all the updates to regulations, I will say that electrical science has never changed in all the years it has been used, so why, oh why, do we all need to pay everytime an update appears? Its the very same calculations and cables just an idea some office geek has that 4mm will not now work so lets use 10mm, its poo every earth cable can be calculated so that a 4mm earth will clear all possible faults just the same as a 16mm will, but then again we are money making machines are we not, we pay our dues and almost never complain, well not to those we should be complaining to.

Well said !! I have spoken to a few people who have ' done their own electrics ' I always mention about Zs for the circuit they have installed for example , only to be met by a puzzled look . electricity can be lethal and can have dire consequences if not installed correctly. The public are aware of gas safe so more education should be submitted about electrical matters to make the public more aware of part p of the building regs .

 

[fezz]

Well said Green Hornet.

And now for my two-penneth: -

I object to Part P on principle, and refuse to join any money-making scheme until it's fair, and accross the board.

As a sole-trader, I would have to pay the full annual membership to one of the "bodies" to be interrogated for an hour or so, and be signed off.

YET, the local big boys down the road from me, employing around 30 chimps have maybe 3 or 4 Qualified Supervisors. Most "chimps" don't ever get a grilling, and rarely get their work tested or inspected by their company's "qualified Supervisor(s)" I've lost count of the times I've found fault with their work - often potentially fatal errors and omissions, but my voice means nothing. Only this week I was asked to "change" one of my inspection failures by a "Qualified Supervisor" who had no knowledge of the job I'd just failed.

So this is my main gripe against Part P, it's one rule for the big boys, and one rule for me, mr. Sole Trader. I have to pay the full yearly membership to be involved, but a chimp can do the same work without actual supervision or membership.

My personal view - Part P does NOT improve electrical safety, it is merely a money grabbing scheme initialted by NICEIC to boost membership. Ill thought-out, and poorly run by all involved, it has done absolutely nothing to reduce the dangers of Domestic Installation Work.

Part P, coupled with the now prevalent 4-6 week "Fully Qualified Electrician Courses" have done a great deal of harm to a once highly respected trade.

 

[Badger]

Well said Green Hornet.And now for my two-penneth: -

I object to Part P on principle, and refuse to join any money-making scheme until it's fair, and accross the board.

As a sole-trader, I would have to pay the full annual membership to one of the "bodies" to be interrogated for an hour or so, and be signed off.

YET, the local big boys down the road from me, employing around 30 chimps have maybe 3 or 4 Qualified Supervisors. Most "chimps" don't ever get a grilling, and rarely get their work tested or inspected by their company's "qualified Supervisor(s)" I've lost count of the times I've found fault with their work - often potentially fatal errors and omissions, but my voice means nothing. Only this week I was asked to "change" one of my inspection failures by a "Qualified Supervisor" who had no knowledge of the job I'd just failed.

So this is my main gripe against Part P, it's one rule for the big boys, and one rule for me, mr. Sole Trader. I have to pay the full yearly membership to be involved, but a chimp can do the same work without actual supervision or membership.

My personal view - Part P does NOT improve electrical safety, it is merely a money grabbing scheme initialted by NICEIC to boost membership. Ill thought-out, and poorly run by all involved, it has done absolutely nothing to reduce the dangers of Domestic Installation Work.

Part P, coupled with the now prevalent 4-6 week "Fully Qualified Electrician Courses" have done a great deal of harm to a once highly respected trade.

well said

 

[ianmacd]

But why should i have to pay the LBC for work in my own home if my quals were produced to them to view.

The same is true of plumbers with unvented systems, double glassing installers, Builders, etc....

 

[ProDave]

no one would (well not many) atempt to put a gas boiler/fire in themselves,

Actually you CAN legally do DIY gas work providing you are competent. It only becomes illegal to do gas work without qualifications if doing it as a trade. I installed the gas boiler in my last house, and the gas cooker in my present house, and BC had no problem passing the work.

In fact you don't even need to notify LABC if you are just DIY installing a gas appliance, so in fact from a DIY point of view, gas work is less controlled than electrical work. :coat

The same is true of plumbers with unvented systems, double glassing installers, Builders, etc....

Again, I installed my own unvented hot water system and BC had no problem signing it off.

 

[ianmacd]

I thought that was no longer the case since gas safe came in and corgi went out?

 

[ProDave]

I thought that was no longer the case since gas safe came in and corgi went out?

You may be right, in which case I stand corrected, but certainly when CORGI ruled (when I did my last DIY gas work) it was certainly legal to DIY your own gas.

 

[Evans Electric]

If we have to put up with Part P and gas installers have a similar system for ages , why is it that the worst rip-off cowboys this side of Tombstone can still happily trade , sometimes causing people heartbreak as they drive them to the bank to draw another inflated stage payment. Of whom do I speak , I hear you ask....... builders . Not all , there are some good guys out there but I could become a builder tomorrow.

They should be certified as a competent outfit with a good knowledge of the building regs as we have to .

 

[green-hornet]

I have seen a builder put a steel rsj on directly on thermal block, when I showed him I could channel out for the sockets with a screwdriver he saw the error of his ways.

 

[batty]

I was thinking today we all moan about part p but what if it was not here would there be more foreign sparks taking our work I think there probably would be. I know its not perfect but I think it does help to a certain extent.

 

[ianmacd]

I have seen a builder put a steel rsj on directly on thermal block, when I showed him I could channel out for the sockets with a screwdriver he saw the error of his ways.

Hmm so missing the pad stone then?

 

[ProDave]

I have seen a builder put a steel rsj on directly on thermal block, when I showed him I could channel out for the sockets with a screwdriver he saw the error of his ways.

That's what building control site inspections are supposed to pick up, to make sure buildings are constructed properly.