how do you get around this...

[maccarooni]

A builder who i do work for also uses another couple of electricans on other jobs. Now last year one of the others finished a barn conversion for him and a few weeks later became ill. Not wanting to hound the guy for the paperwork he let it be until the sparks was back on his feet. Sadly the sparks passed away and the builder never got any certs. He's since been in contact with BC officer who wants certs and wont sign off the job for him. The sparks never notified the job and now the builder is up there without a paddle.....

Any ideas guys on the next step for him.. I've explained that another spark can only give a PIR and BC wont except this....

Macca

 

[springcrocus]

Possibly a copy of the death certificate to BC to show that you're not trying to pull the wool over their eyes. Then discuss the way forward with them. Surely an exception should be made in a case such as this.

 

[m4tty]

^^+1

---------- AUTO MERGE Post added at 09:35 ---------- Previous post was at 09:33 ----------

Do you trust the builder mate as I get asked to do this sort of thing often and won't sign anyone elses work off. Alot of builders are dodgy and do work themselves and expect a spark to come in a sign it off.

 

[a1]

With the greatest of respect. He should stick to one spark. (unless his other work is in an area that the one spark don't cover).

 

[spinlondon]

If BC are unwilling to accept a PIR, then the only option is for you to use a 3 part EIC.

You sign for the tseting and the builder would have to sign for the design and construction.

 

[sellers]

electrician would have to sign design and construction, may have to get the builder to pay for a seance! lol put that one by BC

 

[spinlondon]

No, the person responsible for the design and construction has to to sign, which doesn't neccessarily have to be the person who did the work.

 

[PC Electrics]

A builder who i do work for also uses another couple of electricans on other jobs. Now last year one of the others finished a barn conversion for him and a few weeks later became ill. Not wanting to hound the guy for the paperwork he let it be until the sparks was back on his feet. Sadly the sparks passed away and the builder never got any certs. He's since been in contact with BC officer who wants certs and wont sign off the job for him. The sparks never notified the job and now the builder is up there without a paddle.....Any ideas guys on the next step for him.. I've explained that another spark can only give a PIR and BC wont except this....

Macca

reads as:

I've explained that another spark can only give a PIR....Macca

I've explained that BC wont except this....Macca

You should get BC to confirm what they are prepared to accept. How do you know they won't accept a PIR? Seems unusual.

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

With the greatest of respect. He should stick to one spark. (unless his other work is in an area that the one spark don't cover).

And what if this spark dies ?

 

[Tooold]

I'm sure Iv read about this type of scenario in NIC paperwork and it is pretty well covered. Cant remember where at the mo. Not sure if you are in NIC either but the insurance from them may cover all of this.

 

[Apache]

With the greatest of respect. He should stick to one spark. (unless his other work is in an area that the one spark don't cover).

Why so? There's no reason they can't pull in a local spark who is available when needed. Not everything is planned long in advance and the 'usual' spark might be booked up or doing another job.

I think it probably healthier for both businesses for multiple sparks to work with multiple builders - if one builder goes bust less hit on your business, spreading the risk?

 

[binky]

I would help the man out and perhaps become the preferred spark. Either that or talk direct to building control, who can of course check the place themselves.

 

[m4tty]

I would help the man out and perhaps become the preferred spark. Either that or talk direct to building control, who can of course check the place themselves.

Are you saying check over all the work and sign it off then become the preferred spark?

 

[androiduk2002]

I would speak to building control or get the builder to as under Part P regs ;

1.28 Unregistered installers should not themselves arrange for a third part to carry out final inspection and testing. The third party-not having supervised the work from the outset-would not be in a position to verify that the installation work complied fully with BS 7671:2001 requirements. An electrical installation certificate can be issued only by the installer repsonsible for the installation work.

1.29 A third party could only sign a BS 7671:2001 Periodic inspection Report or similar. The report would indicate that electrical safety tests had been carried out on the installation which met BS 7671:2001 criteria, but it could not verify that the installation complied fully with BS 7671:2001 requirements-for example with regard to routing of hidden cables.

 

[kme]

If BC are unwilling to accept a PIR, then the only option is for you to use a 3 part EIC.You sign for the testing and the builder would have to sign for the design and construction.

Have done this on a "self build" project by an ex-work colleague - BC had no issues AFAIAA

electrician would have to sign design and construction

No they don`t mate - the person who designed it (can be in an office, as a designer / architect / surveyor). Consider a tendered job, where someone has specified what you will install, how many circuits, what OCPD to use, CSA of cables etc. They sign design - and in some cases the installer is not ALLOWED to I&T the work - it must be a 3rd party.

Or install can be done by a householder, or anyone who considers themselves "competent" - doesn`t have to be an electrician.

KME

 

[sellers]

I presumed he would be a one man band, therfore he would more than likely be the designer and installer, but i appreciate in other instances different people sign different parts.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Well personally I would get the builder to contact the help desk of the approved contractor scheme that the deceased electrician was a member of and see if they have any procedures in place..

AS..

It would have been that schemes insurance backed warranty that would have been offered to the customer and provided the protection in the event of any areas of non-compliances with the building regs.

That is assuming that the ex-electrician WAS a member of a scheme?

as he should have been if going to self cert the work?

If not the LABC would have been involved earlier themselves?

I would assume that there was some ongoing paperwork as he completed various parts of the installation?

I know I would test the various circuits as each on is completed.. & not leave it all to the end?

Even if not all on the final pukka cert I have the circuit details all written down..

e.g. the Ring cross over test at each outlet?

Or is the installation still Not energised?

:|

Bottom line IMHO it is a problem between the builder

the LABC

& the Approved contractor body the ex-spark was a member of.

There are risks and liabilities for signing something is ok if there are dodgy practices hidden behind the plaster.

:|

 

[ADS]

An interesting discussion this, and once again bringing to light grey areas in the world of notification and Part P.

Are we not also confusing the signing of BS7671 forms and actual notification.

The reason I say this is....

Let's say our builder is doing a big domestic extension (he's not registered with a scheme)

He gets in 'D. E. Sign & Co' to do the design work (including the electrics)

'D. E. Sign' signs the three part form for design.

The builder then gets 'Joe Sparks' in to do the install - he signs the form as such.

'Tommy Tester' does the I & T, and signs the form.

Who does the notification via the scheme??

This is a genuine question as I haven't worked this way myself - I use the single form.

And if they each notify their own bit, does that mean the deisigner has to be Part P registered?

 

[kme]

I generally find that its the I&T guy who will notify; as he is the one who will theoretically be energising the install; and, as he is completing the paperwork, would do the LABC notification. That is the way we normally work these scenarios, anyway.....

KME

 

[ADS]

I generally find that its the I&T guy who will notify; as he is the one who will theoretically be energising the install; and, as he is completing the paperwork, would do the LABC notification. That is the way we normally work these scenarios, anyway.....KME

In that case, then, in the OPs situation, the builder (if he was prepared to accept responsibility), could sign as being responsible for the design and installation and the OP could inspect, test and notify - or am I missing something.

Like I said - dark shade of grey all round....it's bloody daft!