Sbs Trade Sales

[SBS Dave]

SH*T!!!

Just received another order for 130 x CRB-B6 6A Compact RCBOs. I guess I will have to grovel to my Chinese Supplier to up my new order. Anyway, that's my problem.

Streetlighter, attached are photos of a timer unit I have pulled together for you to comment on.

Timer is a 24hr one, 4A inductive rating and an 80 hour power reserve battery.

You can tell I am taking your enquiry seriously. 

SBS Dave

 

[NozSpark]

I know the above aren't for me,,, but I wouldn't buy them in a two module enclosure unless I was limited for space... I'd want something a little bigger,,,, maybe 3 or 4 mod enclosure 

 

[steptoe]

when I done xmas lighting we used a 'LUCY' block,

they deffo seem a lot better than that,

oh, how,

times, they are a changing.  :innocent

 

[SBS Dave]

Hi NozSpark

I take your point that the 2-mod enclosure is small, but that is what Streetlighter asked for. It is good marketing to "satisfy the customer's needs"

I do have 4-mods of the same type or even IP65 if needed. 

The important bit was the timer, which hopefully will do the job that Streetlighter suggested.

SBS DAve

 

[SBS Dave]

Hi Streetlighter,

Still awaiting your comments on the timer unit I sourced and assembled, following your enquiry.

I was hoping you would supply me with a typical spec for these units, or the name of a manufacturer of the unit you mentioned.

Look forward to your post.

SBS Dave

 

[SBS Dave]

Sometime ago, I believe someone mentioned the fact that some 2-pole RCBOs were known to burn out, when fitted into a normal CU.

I am sure the product in question was not one of mine, but I can probably explain why the problem occurred, whilst also highlighting a possible application problem with other 2-pole RCBOs on the market.

The GARO product seems to have vanished from our Sponsor wholesaler range, so it may have been the product in question. Some products with a 3000A ssc, which the cheaper ones often were, could burn out under low Ze short circuit conditions, that is why in the UK, a min ssc of 4500A should be used. But that is not the likely cause. These lower spec. Compact RCBOs have a max rating of 32A and are designed for the LINE to come in at the TOP and the LOAD to go out at the BOTTOM, opposite to the UK, but standard in Australia. On most of these devices, it says on the side, "Do NOT reverse LINE and LOAD connection. DAMAGE TO UNIT MAY OCCUR."

There is one other Compact RCBO currently being offered in the UK, although it seems to be permanently out of stock. The max size available is 32A, so there is no provision for a large shower circuit or a large cooker. The wiring diagram on the side doesn't differentiate between LINE and LOAD connection, but close inspection of the terminal labels, shows IN at the TOP and OUT at the BOTTOM, in a microscopic font size. It would be easy to assume they could replace MCBs or populate new CUs on the DIN rail, but that would lead to reverse connections and a potentially dangerous situation. I believe this is the problem the original topic referred to.

My range of RCBOs include a 40A size and can be connected BOTH WAYS. They are manufactured by the original designer of 2-pole 1-module RCBOs and this reverse connection facility is part of their patented design. I could market my product through wholesalers, but they would offer them @ £25.00 or more, so you would be back to square one on price resistance. By selling mine

 

[SBS Dave]

Oops!!!

Somehow screwed up this post and got it locked.

The post should have continued, "By selling mine direct to the trade, I have cut out the middle man and, operating on a modest margin, can offer Compacts @ £13.00 + VAT.

I have now looked more closely at the GARO product, which is sold by Meteor Electrical, an Irish subsidiary of a Swedish co. and not by one of our Forum sponsors. From the terminal markings, it would appear their product is designed for LINE at the BOTTOM and LOAD at the TOP, which suitable for UK applications. However, it is only available up to 25A rating and at £24.00 + VAT.

I have also been advised of another unit on the UK market and when I get more info, I will update this post.

Update,

The other unit is sold by C-Pak and is an older model of Chinese origin. It clearly shows LINE at the TOP and LOAD at the BOTTOM and is only available up to 32A.

 

[ProDave]

It was me that mentioned a problem with some rcbo's not liking being connected the wrong way round. I had a Contactum one blow up in spectacular fashion due to input / output reversed, but the legend on it did not make clear which was which and it came with no instructions.  That was not a "compact" rcbo, but a 2 module 2 pole rcbo.

It's VERY good to know yours will work either way round.

 

[brummydave]

I'm very interested in these compact RCBOs as I've an ancient board to replace in a meter box. Will get pics tomorrow. It is only small so hope you'll have stock.

On a separate note, recently I've used the Control Gear enclosures and RCBOs from Denmans. The enclosures are not ideal for tight installations but for garage walls where there's no size limit they've been great. The 'Curve' range of enclosures has a lovely amount of space in the board and I was wondering how they compare with yours?

In addition, my experience with MK Sentry enclosures is that there's precious little working room in them with standard MCBs let alone giant RCBOs, so i'm interested in how the compact RCBO can tidy things up.

Thanks for your extremely informative posts, apparent great customer service and unique business model. I do hope you can keep it up with the increased business coming your way.

TTFN, Dave.

 

[SBS Dave]

Hi Dave (not another Dave!!)

You must be not just a Senior Member but also a Senior Citizen.  I haven't seen or used "TTFN" in donkey's years!!

I am surprised you consider MK enclosures to be tight for space, but I haven't seen Control Gear's enclosures.

My enclosures are smaller than MK and with the DIN rail more central. This because they are designed also for countries, where the circuits come in at the bottom.

With my Compact RCBOs, there is still ample room and with Standard RCBOs, you can bring the neutral and earth connections down to the bottom, leaving room only for circuit wires at the top. 

The photos show Standard and Compact RCBOs in MK and SBS enclosures. You can locate the Main Switch to the extreme left or right in mine, whereas MK and maybe Control Gear are L/H or R/H.

Once you have details of available space on your job, perhaps we could see if my setup is suitable.

SBS Dave

 

[brummydave]

MK ENC-8M with CRBs.JPG

MK ENC-8M with RCBs.JPG

SBS ENC-9S with CRBs.JPG

SBS ENC-12S with RCBs.JPG

Hi Dave (not another Dave!!)

You must be not just a Senior Member but also a Senior Citizen.  I haven't seen or used "TTFN" in donkey's years!!

I am surprised you consider MK enclosures to be tight for space, but I haven't seen Control Gear's enclosures.

My enclosures are smaller than MK and with the DIN rail more central. This because they are designed also for countries, where the circuits come in at the bottom.

With my Compact RCBOs, there is still ample room and with Standard RCBOs, you can bring the neutral and earth connections down to the bottom, leaving room only for circuit wires at the top. 

The photos show Standard and Compact RCBOs in MK and SBS enclosures. You can locate the Main Switch to the extreme left or right in mine, whereas MK and maybe Control Gear are L/H or R/H.

Once you have details of available space on your job, perhaps we could see if my setup is suitable.

SBS Dave

Hi Dave

Cheeky! I've used TTFN for years, and i'm not forty yet! Must be a Tigger thing

Thanks for the info though, very versatile.

Here's more info on the current job:

The FALKS meter/fusebox enclosure is earthed metal. It's 180mm deep, 295mm wide at the narrowest (between the two side cable channels) and 335mm at the widest. The existing FALKS fusebox is 150mm high, but there's 250mm available above the meter.

Currently there are four live circuits - lighting, sockets, cooker and kitchen power. (6A, 20A, 32A & 32A)

I'll try and get hold of more photos of jobs in MK and control gear enclosures to illustrate what I mean about lack of /plenty of space. I've found one of a partly completed job! I really do like the neatness of jobs posted with your kit.

Look forward to your reply,

TTFN, Dave.

 

[SBS Dave]

Hi Dave,

It looks as though the metal fusebox bottom shelf will come out, presumably creating the 250mm above the meter.

My enclosures are100mm deep, so that is not a problem. My ENC-9S 7-way board would fit in easily, as it is only 217mm wide and my ENC-12S 10-way board would also fit, as it is only 272mm wide. the height of both is 215mm, so not a problem.

There is a knockout at the top L/H of my board, more or less in the same position as yours, so circuit conductors will fit straight in. You can position the earth terminal bar anywhere along the top and the main switch can be L/H or R/H to suit.

My ENC-9S + 6 x Compact RCBOs and busbars would be £95.60 less 5% = £90.82 + £6.00 postage = £96.82 + VAT = £ 116.18.

If this solution is of interest to you, e-mail me at [email protected]

I can see that the Control Gear enclosures are very tall, but of course, would be no good for this job.

PLEASE ALSO NOTE THAT I AM OUT OF TOWN FROM MONDAY to THURSDAY  NEXT WEEK.

SBS Dave

 

[SBS Dave]

Thought you may be interested in these photos of my new 24-module / 22-way DB.

You will see that the RCBOs on the top and bottom DIN rails are linked together via a LIVE and NEUTRAL busbar links to the right.

I have a customer currently installing on of these DBs and I shall post photos when I get them.

PLEASE ALSO NOTE THAT MY SPONSOR BANNER NOW SHOWS ON THE TEF HOME PAGE.

When you click on it, it takes you to the first page of the SBS Trade Sales original post.

I will update / edit that first post from time to time, so that the current Price List, for instance, can be easily found.

All other posting to this thread by TEF members or myself, will appear on the last page of this thread, as usual.

I hope this arrangement works, but if you can think of a better way, please let me know.

SBS Dave

 

[SBS Dave]

Just remembered, the very first sample of the DB I had, was installed by a customer, on a job where he couldn't have got an MK 21-module in the available space. My 2-decker made the install much easier.

For this job, he used a Main Switch for the whole board and a sub-Main Switch for the lower tier. I made up 2 special busbar links, to feed the lower switch from the upper one.

I am still waiting for photos for the install of the style in the previous post.

SBS Dave

 

[batty]

Hello Dave the above CU looks perfect for the job I am doing at present I will count up how many ways I need and hopefully this will be perfect. If I do need more ways I possibly may have to either stack an MK consumer unit or bring two sets of tails in. Will be in touch I also need to order a couple of CU's for another job I am doing.

 

[OnOff]

Very neat. Means more scope to start thinking about say fridge and freezer on their own separate RCBOs, ditto the "plug in" oven etc. Outside lights on their own........the list goes on! :Applaud

 

[batty]

I have put in a lot of grid switches in kitchens lately, The ones I have done need a 16/20 amp circuit for microwave, 16/20 amp circuit for oven, then you have fridge/freezer, dishwasher, warmer drawer, cooker hood granted some can be doubled up. But I prefer to separate them as much as possible. With Daves RCBO's this is possible without breaking the bank.

 

[Sidecutter]

I finally got my first job done last week using the compact RCBO. I reused the old housing and just changed the main swich and RCBos job was so simple I felt guilty about sending my invoice in. will definately be using again.

 

[OnOff]

I've just contacted Dave with a view to "trying his wares". Prompt response etc. All good.

The two row ones with compacts have got me thinking now for the replacement main CU in my own place. Then there's the garage, stable, shed........... :lol:

 

[SBS Dave]

SBS STANDARD RCBOs  -  STILL THE SAME PRODUCT  -  JUST A NAME CHANGE

3 years ago, I started importing the Standard RCBO, sold under my model numbers RCB-B6 to RCB-B50. This general type of  RCBO, sold by most other manufacturers, is becoming unpopular, because of its size and the nuisance of neutral and earth flying leads.

My product, like a lot on the market, is a generic product, sold under different brands around the world. It has been sold in the UK by MK, Chint, Contactum, TDline and others. It is a genuine 10KA ssc and the are ALL IDENTICAL in technical specification.

However, because most of my sales are now Compact RCBOs, sales of Standard RCBOs dropped to a level, where I couldn't justify having them branded SBS in China. For the last year, therefore, I have been importing an unbranded model and putting my own logo on. This was a pain in the a*se, but it at least kept my costs down and I was able to maintain my original £10.00 + VAT price.

I have now discovered the exact same model as mine, from the same Chinese manufacturer, being sold by a UK importer called TDline, along with a range of MCBs I used to import 3 years ago. In the attached photos, the one on the left is my original model, the next is the unbranded one, which I labelled myself and the last one is the TDline model, which I will phase in over the next few weeks.

I have now entered a trading deal with TDline, whereby I can sell their TDline branded RCBO for the same price as I did 3 years ago @ £10.00 + VAT. I will also stock their range of their 6KA MCBs in 6A to 50A sizes @ £2.00 + VAT, for those occasions when customers want one or two MCBs in their RCBO boards. Of course, both products will still attract a discount of up to 10%, depending on order value.

And, of course, I am the only Company in the UK, seriously marketing the Compact 1-module / 2-pole RCBO concept!!

Which leads to 2 other points.

IF I STOCKED THE C curve VERSION OF THE COMPACT, WOULD YOU BUY THEM??  Please let me know.

Last point  - Sales of Compacts have now gone silly, thanks to a large degree to TEF members and I am almost out of stock of some sizes.

It could be 10 -12 days before my new stock arrives, so I hope to god, most of you are on holiday for the next couple of weeks!!

SBS Dave