Attic conversio

[top banana]

Hi everyone, so I'm a semi retired, self employed electrician, I mostly work solo so don't have the opportunity to ask other sparks questions or bounce ideas.
Anyway, it's Napit assessment time in a few weeks and I've selected a small attic conversion I first and second fixed, the conversion is the first floor of a 5 year old bungalow, the incoming supply is a TT system, consumer unit is 18th Ed, with rcbos, the owner wanted a small 3 way 18th Ed consumer unit installing in the upstairs airing cupboard, consumer unit powers, small ring, lights and shower, anyway I fed the 3way board from main consumer unit via 40amp rcbo and 10mm t/e, small board has type B mcbs not rcbos, anyway Napit reckon I now have to replace the main consumer unit with type A RCBOs and SPD, as I've added a new circuit to main board, is this necessary? In terms of new amendments to regs?
Any advice would be appreciated

 

[Murdoch]

Nonsense , as usual from the NAPIT imho

What type of rcbo did you add?

If your assessment is in a few weeks why are they advising these changes?

 

[poni]

first floor of a 5 year old bungalow

is it still a bungalow? with a up stairs

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I have no idea of exactly what type of consumer unit you are referring to when you describe something as an "18th edition consumer unit"...?????

As to my knowledge the definitions in part 2 BS7671 just describe a "Consumer Unit" as: (paraphrase)...
A particular type of distribution board for use by ordinary people, comprising type tested assembly including manual means of double pole isolation at the incoming circuit(s) and an assembly of one or more protective devices, proven during the type testing of the assembly and suitable for such use....

Which basically covers a vast swathe of units with combinations of MCB's RCD's RCBO's, of various types, etc.. all supplied by a double-pole main switch.. Selected dependent upon the type of installation and the work you are doing!

What actual types of protective devices have you used?
and are your RCD/RCBO's selected in accordance with the device types described in section 531.3.3?
(and/or the rest of section 531.3)...

I am assuming that if you are due an assessment, you have by now passed you C&G 18th ed', and have a copy of current regs, OSG etc?

At the end of the day as long as you can justify your design and installation choices with ref to BS7671:2018, Amd 2 2022..
you can tell Napit, (or any other similar type person), to take a long walk!!!

 

[kerching]

Bollox

 

[mort2376]

As long as your rcbo feeding the sub board is a type A I can't see an issue and if the installation doesn't fall into any of the spd categories then ot doesn't need that.

They may say its due to a safety circuit being Installed but that does not apply to smoke detectors since the last update.

It wouldn't fail an eicr for type Ac rcbos !

 

[top banana]

I have no idea of exactly what type of consumer unit you are referring to when you describe something as an "18th edition consumer unit"...?????

As to my knowledge the definitions in part 2 BS7671 just describe a "Consumer Unit" as: (paraphrase)...
A particular type of distribution board for use by ordinary people, comprising type tested assembly including manual means of double pole isolation at the incoming circuit(s) and an assembly of one or more protective devices, proven during the type testing of the assembly and suitable for such use....

Which basically covers a vast swathe of units with combinations of MCB's RCD's RCBO's, of various types, etc.. all supplied by a double-pole main switch.. Selected dependent upon the type of installation and the work you are doing!

What actual types of protective devices have you used?
and are your RCD/RCBO's selected in accordance with the device types described in section 531.3.3?
(and/or the rest of section 531.3)...

I am assuming that if you are due an assessment, you have by now passed you C&G 18th ed', and have a copy of current regs, OSG etc?

At the end of the day as long as you can justify your design and installation choices with ref to BS7671:2018, Amd 2 2022..
you can tell Napit, (or any other similar type person), to take a long walk!!!

Hi mate,

Sorry, the existing consumer unit is a 16 way metal MK with type AC RCBOs, NAPIT reckons as I've taken a sub main 10mm twin and earth to supply a small metal clad consumer unit in the attic conversion I should now replace the RCBOs with type A's and add an SPD in the existing MK consumer unit

 

[top banana]

is it still a bungalow? with a up stairs

good point well presented, its now a house dwelling i guess

 

[Murdoch]

Hi mate,

Sorry, the existing consumer unit is a 16 way metal MK with type AC RCBOs, NAPIT reckons as I've taken a sub main 10mm twin and earth to supply a small metal clad consumer unit in the attic conversion I should now replace the RCBOs with type A's and add an SPD in the existing MK consumer unit

IMHO you only need to change the RCBO you added unless, of course you mean its a type AC RCD

 

[kerching]

Hi mate,

Sorry, the existing consumer unit is a 16 way metal MK with type AC RCBOs, NAPIT reckons as I've taken a sub main 10mm twin and earth to supply a small metal clad consumer unit in the attic conversion I should now replace the RCBOs with type A's and add an SPD in the existing MK consumer unit

I refer you to my previous answer which has been formulated based upon facts and the Wiring Regs and NOT some 'inspectors' opinion. If the original installation is capable of accepting the new addition then the original board should be of no concern to them

I also find in such cases a reference to the case of Arkle v. pressdram in the High Court often suffices

 

[UNG]

I would be asking NAPIT to justify their stance on this referencing the regs and reasons why it is needed to comply

This is just another reason why I hate these self declared electrical experts many of whom have never actually done any decent time on installation work yet have an opinion on everything

As everyone has said an A type RCBO for the circuit in question and the rest is ok if the NAPIT inspector don't like it then tell him you want a second opinion
Personally I would cancel the assessment and withdraw from NAPIT and then register a complaint with them and with UKAS if they persist with their stance and don't forget to request a refund of any money paid

 

[binky]

Only any ccts being altered or newly installed need to be fully up to date. If you aren't doing anything to the rest fo the house, it's no concern as long at it was compliant at the time of installation.

 

[Andy™]

id be asking for which regs state that. and maybe a complaint to napit about their assessors not being competent

 

[Murdoch]

id be asking for which regs state that. and maybe a complaint to napit about their assessors not being competent

If the OP hasn't had his assessment, then it must be the NAPIT help desk handing out dubious advice then.

 

[J'adore electrics]

As other guys have mentioned, changing the sub DB RCBO for type A and if it really is a prob could you put an SPD in sub DB if room?

Or change/install main isolator incorporating an SPD?

 

[Old Dog]

I know that similar queries with NAPIT or NICEIC ALWAYS come back as - The Regulations are a “minimum requirement” but we recommend etc !

 

[sirsparkabit]

In older rcd x2 boards ect if they have the option to install an rcbo type A on the unprotected side next to the main switch and reconfigure the bus bar ,that's what I do . As far as I know totally compliant .