Building Regulations and Solar Panels

[Marky0]

Its great news that Octopus are now trialing export tariffs without MCS certificates.
I signed up for their trial as soon as it was announced (having installed my system myself, with electrical connection done by a qualified electrician).
E-mail came through yesterday to allow me to join the scheme, and I have all the necessary electrical paperwork (DNO, NICEIC certificate) but pondering the requirement for "Building Control Approval".

Panels are on my garage roof, which I understood did not require planning permission nor building control as it
(1) Is a permitted development with the panels not extending above the ridgeline and not projecting from the roof or wall surface - no planning required
(2) The garage is detached, open on two sides, less than 30m2 floor area and is constructed from non-combustible materials - no building regs required

So I am scratching my head a little on how to proceed, and don't want to burn the £250 octopus application fee if I have a problem.
Before I open pandora's box with the local building control am I correct in my assessment, or am I heading for a retrospective application.

Any advice appreciated !

 

[binky]

Your electrician should have notified building control for installation if a new circuit(s). BC would have emailed you a copy of the notification if that had been done. I would ask your electrician if he notified BC or not.

 

[Marky0]

Your electrician should have notified building control for installation if a new circuit(s). BC would have emailed you a copy of the notification if that had been done. I would ask your electrician if he notified BC or not.

Thanks , I will check and that would cover the electrical side, but I installed the panels on the roof so there is also a building side which I am assuming is exempt because they are on a detached garage ?

 

[Murdoch]

Thanks , I will check and that would cover the electrical side, but I installed the panels on the roof so there is also a building side which I am assuming is exempt because they are on a detached garage ?

A new circuit is a new circuit irrespective of where it is on or in a property

 

[binky]

Thanks , I will check and that would cover the electrical side, but I installed the panels on the roof so there is also a building side which I am assuming is exempt because they are on a detached garage ?

Can't quite remember the garage side, but I think it falls within 'permitted development' provided it's not above any ridge line and less than 150mm off the roof - most frames are about 100mm, so no BC notification required unless in a conservation area.

 

[willspark]

Thanks , I will check and that would cover the electrical side, but I installed the panels on the roof so there is also a building side which I am assuming is exempt because they are on a detached garage ?

Hi,
I'm an Electrician who has been installing Solar systems for customers. I'm not MCS approved and my customers are fully aware of this before installation. One of my customers was just about to apply for the new non MCS scheme with Octopus, but as you said above the only ? Is the building control certificate. She has DNO Approval, electrical cert and Building control electrical sign off. I tried to call octopus to find out what type of Building control cert they require. But I got through to a call center not in this country and they didn't have a clue?
The installation I did for her was on a large flat roof on a Garage building.
She didn't want to apply and pay the £250, not knowing if the paperwork would be accepted. Do building control need to sign off the weight loading side of things for the roof? If so how do you get them to do this? It will be interesting to see how you get on with your application?

 

[ProDave]

So how would this work in Scotland where there is no need to notify BC of every single new circuit installed? Do you just tell Octopus BC notification is not required here and they will shut up?

Just wondering should I go down this route? I have DNO paperwork approving the connection for which I had to prove ownership of the equipment, and provide drawings and an EIC but I don't have any BC paperwork because there is none.

 

[binky]

Do building control need to sign off the weight loading side of things for the roof? If so how do you get them to do this? It will be interesting to see how you get on with your application?

my experience they take no notice what so ever. As the installer you are suppossed to get a civil engineer to assess the weight bearing capacity of the roof, however, as most roofs are designed to take 8 ft of snow, and global warming means that's highly unlikely, I wouldn't be too worried.

 

[Andy1733]

I was tempted to go down the route then calculated the amount I would have received from the excess I sent back. Last 12 month would total £22. 49p. I didn't bother and putting the money towards another battery

 

[Geoff1946]

When my solar panels were installed a surveyor raised concerns about wind uplift rather than weight on the roof.
He changed his mind when I told the supplier that I was cancelling the whole project if extra structural work was needed.
I have deep suspicions he was out to con. me. All I can say is that the roof hasn't blown off in ten years.

 

[binky]

When my solar panels were installed a surveyor raised concerns about wind uplift rather than weight on the roof.
He changed his mind when I told the supplier that I was cancelling the whole project if extra structural work was needed.
I have deep suspicions he was out to con. me. All I can say is that the roof hasn't blown off in ten years.

Wind uplift is the most destructive force on any roof. It's why we are supposed to keep 300mm from the edges of roofs. You can fit closer to edges, but need extra roof hooks if you do. It's not a good idea to get close to edges anyway, a lot of roofs have cement edging, trying to repair the cement is a pita.

 

[DazRave]

I've just registered in order to comment on this post.

I'm part way through a large house extension and I was originally planning to add Solar Panels and a battery purely for my own consumption as a last minute addition to the build. The timing of Octopus' trail couldn't have been more perfect and I too have applied (although not yet paid).

In my instance, we'll have a qualified electrician doing the work and we're going for an in-roof system that my roofer said is happy to install the trays for (it looks easy enough!). I've also notified my BC who, for a small fee, will add the inspection of the solar system on the roof etc. So the only thing that would be left for me to do is notify the DNO and I think I'd have ticked all of Octopus' boxes.

Unless anyone else knows of anything I've missed?

 

[gustaff]

I've just registered in order to comment on this post.

I'm part way through a large house extension and I was originally planning to add Solar Panels and a battery purely for my own consumption as a last minute addition to the build. The timing of Octopus' trail couldn't have been more perfect and I too have applied (although not yet paid).

In my instance, we'll have a qualified electrician doing the work and we're going for an in-roof system that my roofer said is happy to install the trays for (it looks easy enough!). I've also notified my BC who, for a small fee, will add the inspection of the solar system on the roof etc. So the only thing that would be left for me to do is notify the DNO and I think I'd have ticked all of Octopus' boxes.

Unless anyone else knows of anything I've missed?

Don't forget if you are going for notify after, you are limited to 3.6 kw

 

[Marky0]

I've finally found a resolution to my original question, so I post my solution here as it may help someone on the forum.

I contacted my local building control to clarify what I needed to do to get building regs, given the garage is exempt based on its size as per my original post. In summary it seems that the solution is not black and white, and it took some discussion to resolve. But in all fairness my building control department were really helpful and we managed to get it sorted in a couple of phone calls. I had the final e-mail confirmation in less than a week.

The first response from building control was as follows :
(1) the new electrical circuit to the garage needed to be installed by an electrician who is registered as a competent person and they could self certify the installation and provide a building regs (part P) certificate for the electrical side.
(2) For the installation of the panels to the roof and the loading (which I carried out myself, so my electrician cannot self certify that aspect) I had to go through a standard building regs application at a charge of £300 and a final inspection. Needless to say this was not the answer I had hoped for !

Building control agreed that the garage was exempt from building regs given its size, so when I pointed out that building a garage from the ground up with solar panels as part of its construction would not need regs they recognised the contradiction ! So in the end we agreed that I send through the roof loading calculations I had done on Easy-PV and they confirmed by return of e-mail that a building regs application was not required, providing the new electrical circuit was installed and self certified by a CPS accredited electrician. That was not a problem as my electrician is accredited and he is sending a copy of the part P certificate through the post.

So in summary a good outcome and I now have confidence in starting the export process with Octopus. @willspark as to where this leaves you I am not sure. I assume that MCS registered electricians self certify both the new electrical circuit and the roof loading at the same time. So I can only assume that self certification is also needed for both aspects for non MCS registered electricians. You can follow the same approach as I have done as a DIY'er, but I think a quick call to local building control would provide a better answer, and in my case they were very helpful.

 

[Marky0]

Final Update. In preparation for the summer I have now paid the £250 Octopus export registration fee, and successfully received an Octopus export account ! When the sun starts shining let the exporting begin !
Turned out that Octopus only wanted to see the electrical Part P certificate as evidence of building regulations. I didn't submit the agreement I had with building control on the roof loading, and Octopus never asked for it............

 

[willspark]

I have done 4 installations for customers over the last 6 months. All have recently been accepted by Octopus. All they have wanted to see is Electrical cert, building regs cert and G98/G99 Acceptance email.

 

[johnb2713]

I was tempted to go down the route then calculated the amount I would have received from the excess I sent back. Last 12 month would total £22. 49p. I didn't bother and putting the money towards another battery

The trick currently is to run through the day on batteries, export all of the solar PV you generate and then recharge the batteries off peak. Add to this the saving sessions for grid balancing and you can make some serious income from your system. In December I made over £90. Export is paid at 15p (£2.25 or £4 during a saving session), import is 7.5p.

 

[willspark]

The trick currently is to run through the day on batteries, export all of the solar PV you generate and then recharge the batteries off peak. Add to this the saving sessions for grid balancing and you can make some serious income from your system. In December I made over £90. Export is paid at 15p (£2.25 or £4 during a saving session), import is 7.5p.

What is the name of the tariff that you are on with Octopus?

 

[Scruffy D]

As above! What tariff are you on @johnb2713 ? You made £90 in December? I don't think I made 90p!

 

[johnb2713]

As above! What tariff are you on @johnb2713 ? You made £90 in December? I don't think I made 90p!

The tariff doesnt matter, it's during the saving sessions as stated for grid balancing. You are notified usually the day beofre that a saving session is scheduled. At the allotted time energy that you save (based on an average of the last 2 weeks at approx the same time) or energy you can push into the grid you paid from £2.25 and £4.00 per kWh.

I'm on Octopus Intelligent Go but the tariff has no effect on this. On IOG you get 29.6p peak, 7.5p off peak and export at 15p. My regime is I charge the batteries overnight and anything I generate, I export.