downlights in this ceiling

[jabmesen]

Hi -I have the job of fitting 6 LED downlights on this ceiling (approx 7 x 5 meters) The light brown beams are superficial and are coming down, there is solid insulation between the plaster and the roof. Has anybody got any good advice for getting the downlights in and running cables from the first light. I was toying with using the quick wire system for easy of installation- but very open to other ideas. Many thanks in advance

 

[Murdoch]

Walk away is my advice unless you can take the ceiling down ..............

 

[ProDave]

If there is no access to above the ceiling, just how do you propose drilling holes in the rafters and feeding cables through.

Tell the customer it is not possible and go on the the next, easiest, job.

 

[jabmesen]

thanks- so I suppose the feed and/or switched live must go through the rafters!? So I suppose I was thinking of cutting the insulation near rafters and feeding cables below or even above insulation. The ceiling is going to be skimmed after. Does anyone know of any good surface mounted downlights please?

 

[kerching]

With over 50 years experience….walk away!

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Hi -I have the job of fitting 6 LED downlights on this ceiling (approx 7 x 5 meters) The light brown beams are superficial and are coming down, there is solid insulation between the plaster and the roof. Has anybody got any good advice for getting the downlights in and running cables from the first light. I was toying with using the quick wire system for easy of installation- but very open to other ideas. Many thanks in advance

I am a bit unclear on a few points?

(1) Do you mean you are considering offering an estimate / quote for doing the work...?
(2) Do you mean that work has already been agreed and you somehow need to figure out how to do it..?
(3) Are you self employed... if Yes and (2) is yes, then how have you agreed a cost?
(4) Are you self employed... if Yes and (1) is yes, then walk away.. probably too much hassle for minimal return!
(5) Are you an employee/sub-contractor who has to sort out someone else's crap.? If yes then pass the buck back to them for how you are supposed to do it??
(6) Although the light brown beans may be superficial.. there will be some real beams/joists between the plasterboard and the roof that will need negotiating your cables around!!!
(7) To my limited knowledge, quick-wire only helps with the connection bit.... It will offer NO help with trying to get the interconnecting cables through "Solid-Insulation" and past Joists, between each of the lighting points..
(8) How are you going to ensure your 6x downlight positions are all nice and symmetrical and in-line, and NOT clashing with the real ceiling joists?
(9) How do you know what clearance depth you have to accommodate whatever downlights you choose?
(10) IF it is feasible to do for a decent cost.. I would probably use the JCC fireguard cans with a suitable bezel and appropriate GU10 LED lamp.. e.g. Cool/Warm, Lumens, Beam angle, Dimmable etc.. etc.. https://www.jcc.co.uk/en_GB/products/jc010010/nb
(11) If you do go ahead with this job.. and you can get some decent money for doing it.. then I would think multiple pilot holes and larger access holes for feeding cables will be needed in addition to the actual 6x downlight holes!
(12) Pain-in-the-bum jobs can be done providing you are happy with the hassle.. and the customer is willing to pay a premium for your hassle! So you need to evaluate all the pros & cons, and don't sell yourself cheap!!! As I often say to customers.. Anything is possible.. providing someone is willing to pay you for the actual hours needed to undertake the work!
(13) Surface mounted downlights sounds like a bad-idea and contradiction of concept for ceiling mounted downlights!!?

hope that helps?

 

[binky]

Sounds like the only real answer is drop the ceiling, ie plasterboard over what is there. However, if they are removing those fake beams, theres a good chance of a lot of damage, so cutting lots of access holes could be done. The ceiling will end up looking like a bad teabag, as long as the customer understands that, then it is possible.

 

[jabmesen]

I am a bit unclear on a few points?

(1) Do you mean you are considering offering an estimate / quote for doing the work...?
(2) Do you mean that work has already been agreed and you somehow need to figure out how to do it..?
(3) Are you self employed... if Yes and (2) is yes, then how have you agreed a cost?
(4) Are you self employed... if Yes and (1) is yes, then walk away.. probably too much hassle for minimal return!
(5) Are you an employee/sub-contractor who has to sort out someone else's crap.? If yes then pass the buck back to them for how you are supposed to do it??
(6) Although the light brown beans may be superficial.. there will be some real beams/joists between the plasterboard and the roof that will need negotiating your cables around!!!
(7) To my limited knowledge, quick-wire only helps with the connection bit.... It will offer NO help with trying to get the interconnecting cables through "Solid-Insulation" and past Joists, between each of the lighting points..
(8) How are you going to ensure your 6x downlight positions are all nice and symmetrical and in-line, and NOT clashing with the real ceiling joists?
(9) How do you know what clearance depth you have to accommodate whatever downlights you choose?
(10) IF it is feasible to do for a decent cost.. I would probably use the JCC fireguard cans with a suitable bezel and appropriate GU10 LED lamp.. e.g. Cool/Warm, Lumens, Beam angle, Dimmable etc.. etc.. https://www.jcc.co.uk/en_GB/products/jc010010/nb
(11) If you do go ahead with this job.. and you can get some decent money for doing it.. then I would think multiple pilot holes and larger access holes for feeding cables will be needed in addition to the actual 6x downlight holes!
(12) Pain-in-the-bum jobs can be done providing you are happy with the hassle.. and the customer is willing to pay a premium for your hassle! So you need to evaluate all the pros & cons, and don't sell yourself cheap!!! As I often say to customers.. Anything is possible.. providing someone is willing to pay you for the actual hours needed to undertake the work!
(13) Surface mounted downlights sounds like a bad-idea and contradiction of concept for ceiling mounted downlights!!?

hope that helps?

Thanks- that does help- It's a job for someone I know- they are a good distance away and I'm doing a couple of straight forward jobs too....I don't fully understand what's happening above the plasterboard (there is insulation but there may be some void) and wanted to know if in the worst case scenario, there was a workable solution.

 

[binky]

Thanks- that does help- It's a job for someone I know- they are a good distance away and I'm doing a couple of straight forward jobs too....I don't fully understand what's happening above the plasterboard (there is insulation but there may be some void) and wanted to know if in the worst case scenario, there was a workable solution.

Chances are it's a standard void, filled with compressed (solid) fibreglass insulation. This stuff gives thermal and sound deadening properties. You can push a rod or flat tape under it, but it's a right pita!

use a hole saw to cut an exploratory hole. This will allow you to see what you are up against. Keep the cutout, it can be screwed back in place with a bit of batten to hold it,which makes plastering much easier

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Chances are it's a standard void, filled with compressed (solid) fibreglass insulation. This stuff gives thermal and sound deadening properties. You can push a rod or flat tape under it, but it's a right pita!

use a hole saw to cut an exploratory hole. This will allow you to see what you are up against. Keep the cutout, it can be screwed back in place with a bit of batten to hold it,which makes plastering much easier

The only variation to this advice is that I would say..
cut one or more "larger" exploratory hole(s) with a multi-tool...
Something big enough to get yous arm into if needed for feeding cables etc..

But.. ALWAYS keep the cut-out for later patching back up with suitable battens etc..

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Probably easier if they were leave the fake beams in place and just re-board over the top..
Leaving you with a nice easy void to work with for running cables?