Main Power Cable Into Property - Who Maintains, Repairs And Upgrades?

[Andy™]

did someone mention cookies? im on my way

 

[misssweden]

Thank you for your input misssweden, very interesting. I will be around when they do they job assuming there is no charge as my neighbours wife seemed reluctant to want to pay out for it on the basis that they can't afford it at the moment. I would really like to know what prompted them to upgrade the fuse. UK PN said they had received an application from them so I don't think they have been reported as having an unsafe installation as I presume that would result in them receiving and official notice to comply . She's easy to talk to when it comes to things like this and you have to really interrogate her in order to get to the bottom of things. I find it embarrassing for her if you know what I mean so I will have to see if I can catch her husband in between his shifts. They had a shower installed, it's not electric and in a downstairs maisonette they will have had to have a shower pump installed so perhaps that is just one contributory factor.

Will UK PN's main cable be under the pavement in the street or under the road? There is a street light on the pavement nearby, will this be on the same circuit? Is this just a days work?

Thanks

Mostly people apply for an upgraded supply when their sparky advises that what they have isn't sufficient for their needs. I did an upgrade last week where the lady in question was having one of them mega bucks all singing and dancing cookers with an induction hob installed and her old 60 amp supply was upgraded to 100 amp. The mains cable will most likely be under the footpath and unless is more than one cable in there it's probably feeding that streetlight. (Additional fact for forumites; did you know that old PILC cable sometimes have a tiny 5th core just for running streetlights? ).

I make good chocolate chip cookies. Just sayin'...

 

[Andy™]

(did you know that old PILC cable sometimes have a tiny 5th core just for running streetlights? ).

no, but i do know many overhead lines have a SL for the lights

 

[ProDave]

Mostly people apply for an upgraded supply when their sparky advises that what they have isn't sufficient for their needs. I did an upgrade last week where the lady in question was having one of them mega bucks all singing and dancing cookers with an induction hob installed and her old 60 amp supply was upgraded to 100 amp.

The mains cable will most likely be under the footpath and unless is more than one cable in there it's probably feeding that streetlight. (Additional fact for forumites; did you know that old PILC cable sometimes have a tiny 5th core just for running streetlights? ).

I make good chocolate chip cookies. Just sayin'...

You have just highlighted how variable things are.

In the case you mentioned, the customer got what they wanted.

Last year I tried to get a poor supply upgraded.  It was a terraced house, with he supply sharing a head with next door (next door had the head). all this property had, was a pair of tails magically appearing out of the party wall into the meter and they looked wholly inadequate in size and condition.

I never did succeed in getting anything done, mostly because the energy supplier N Power simply refused to acknowledge there was a problem. In the end I think the customer decided not to fit an electric shower.

I guess if N power has anything to do with it, nothing will be done unitl it catches fire. Perhaps I should have fitted the shower and then waited.......

 

[Blue Duck]

UKPN refused to do anything about a high ze (no main earth but I didnt tell them that) as I couldn't take the reading from the head so I got them to do a head change instead.

 

[kerching]

I have seen the fifth core, long time ago though but!

 

[misssweden]

The difference there Dave is that a supply upgrade is a chargable job (at least it is in my area) where as in your case your customer would have probably needed a new supply put in at N Powers cost...

 

[ProDave]

The difference there Dave is that a supply upgrade is a chargable job (at least it is in my area) where as in your case your customer would have probably needed a new supply put in at N Powers cost...

I have said on here time and time again, N power must be verging on illegal the way they go out of their way to persuade you that there is no fault and we are not going to do anything.  and SSE won't take instruction directly if they are not the energy supplier.

On one occasion I tried to report faulty tails as a dangerous situation, and all I got from N Power was "put your request in writing" which eventually I did with a complaint about their dangerous practices and how they left a customer with a potentially dangerous install.

In similar circumstances where SSE is the energy supplier, they have been on site in half an hour when a dangerous condition has been reported.

So in this case, a shared head from next door with pathetic poor condition tails, would they really charge the customer for a "new supply" or would they put in a new supply at their own expense as it's clearly not fit for purpose?

 

[misssweden]

That is bad. And as you say - potentially dangerous. I don't know how N Power operates, but my lot always have someone on rapid response to be able to get to customers as soon as possible when someone calls in with something like that.

In this case I don't think they have grounds to charge the customer for a new supply as they don't actually have their own supply in the first place. That's just my opinion though.

 

[ProDave]

That is bad. And as you say - potentially dangerous. I don't know how N Power operates, but my lot always have someone on rapid response to be able to get to customers as soon as possible when someone calls in with something like that.

Yes but the problem with N power it they won't log a fault and pass it to SSE.

Are N Power charged by SSE to attend a fault?

I can only liken it to when I had the miss fortune of having Talk Talk supply my phone and broadband.  When I had a fault they simply refused to pass the fault to BT as BT charged them to attend faults. Instead they just kept sending me another router (I have a pile of them literally)

I can only guess that N Powers reluctance to pass on a fault must mean they are charged by SSE?

the whole system is "broken" if you ask me.

 

[misssweden]

I don't know to be honest Dave. I don't get involved with any billing or charges at all. Sorry.

 

[fatbob88]

Mostly people apply for an upgraded supply when their sparky advises that what they have isn't sufficient for their needs. I did an upgrade last week where the lady in question was having one of them mega bucks all singing and dancing cookers with an induction hob installed and her old 60 amp supply was upgraded to 100 amp.

The mains cable will most likely be under the footpath and unless is more than one cable in there it's probably feeding that streetlight. (Additional fact for forumites; did you know that old PILC cable sometimes have a tiny 5th core just for running streetlights? ).

I make good chocolate chip cookies. Just sayin'...

It appears that things have been done backside foremost in that the re-wire was completed a few months ago. Does it not follow that if the supply was inadequate for his installation then the fuse would have blown by now or is perhaps a margin of safety factored into the sparkys calculations that is preventing it from blowing?

If it does blow will it make a noise and or will I get a poof of smoke accompanied by a smell of burning. It's sounds a bit scary considering the fuse has probably been there for fifty five years. Should I be concerned?

Thanks.

 

[apprentice87]

Hi Bob,

A fuse takes a lot of blowing... A 60A one, as is often used in the cutout, will take 200A for about a minute, and 100A for about an hour... So, as you can see, the installation as it is now, might not be ideal, but it was coping, even if technically, the supply was a bit overloaded.

"Overloaded" is possibly bit too strong a term here though, perhaps it might be better to say that it was coping with more than the designers originally had in mind...

If the fuse blows,[i presume it is a BS1361] you will not hear or see a thing, just next doors power will go off!!

john..

 

[fatbob88]

Hi Bob,

A fuse takes a lot of blowing... A 60A one, as is often used in the cutout, will take 200A for about a minute, and 100A for about an hour... So, as you can see, the installation as it is now, might not be ideal, but it was coping, even if technically, the supply was a bit overloaded.

"Overloaded" is possibly bit too strong a term here though, perhaps it might be better to say that it was coping with more than the designers originally had in mind...

If the fuse blows,[i presume it is a BS1361] you will not hear or see a thing, just next doors power will go off!!

john..

Thanks for the re-assurance John, much appreciated.

So no real worries for me as I have my own fuse. If it does blow I presume he will have to get UK PN out to replace it i.e. he can't just get his own sparky to do it. Is that correct?

And if so he will then have to make a serious effort to get the upgrade work done even if he has to pay out for the installation of the aforementioned ducting. Apart from the inconvenience to them of the supply being off for a while UK PN are not going to take it too kindly if it blows once again before the upgrade is done. 

As mentioned before we are both in leasehold maisonettes and the land/pathway to the street UK PN are to excavate has to be repaired and maintained by us under our lease obligations. Obviously, UK PN will be making good the pathway after the upgrade is complete so I have no objections to consenting to the work being done. Besides it's an improvement for me as I will no be bothered for access to my maisonette if any more work needs doing on his installation etc. However, should the freeholders also have to give consent to the work as technically the land belongs to them and not us the leaseholders? It's a common misconception among us leaseholders that we own the bricks and mortar to our flats and maisonettes when all we own is the right of peaceful occupation for the unexpired term of our leases. The UK PN engineer that came out reckons no freeholder consent is necessary.

Cheers

 

[Blue Duck]

UKPN may change the fuse you supplier may also do be it a little slower and frought with other issues.

Us mere sparkies technically cant Change the service fuse we also cannot open up a service head. Its against the law and we could get fined lots n lots of money.

On the other hand there is Amelie the seal fairy who comes and opens up the head and removes the fuse for safe working and then replaces said fuse and re-seals the head. :innocent

 

[apprentice87]

Hi Bob,

As the cable is there already, the DNO do not need permission, they have already established an easement. On most peoples land cert there is something about the free passage of cables pipes etc.. You cannot stop them laying the cables anywhere anyway. They will just get a court order and bill you!! So, do not worry about any problems, just sit back and get a better supply!! [For free!!]

john

I was there actually WITH the seal fairy last week................when the meter reader showed up!!!! They reported it to WPD. [who are not the least bit interested!!]

john...

 

[fatbob88]

Hi Bob,

As the cable is there already, the DNO do not need permission, they have already established an easement. On most peoples land cert there is something about the free passage of cables pipes etc.. You cannot stop them laying the cables anywhere anyway. They will just get a court order and bill you!! So, do not worry about any problems, just sit back and get a better supply!! [For free!!]

john

I was there actually WITH the seal fairy last week................when the meter reader showed up!!!! They reported it to WPD. [who are not the least bit interested!!]

john...

Thanks again John and Blue Duck. Interesting stuff about the already established easement. It's strange that there appears to be different rules for gas and water and sewerage. I know it's different in respect of water and sewerage as I keep getting flyers through the door for insurance in the event of a water pipe bursting or the sewer/drain collapsing between the street and the building. I have thought about the insurance but I'm not sure if it's possible to take out a joint policy with my neighbour. The water supply pipe and drains are probably still the originals so will be about 55 years old now.

Cheers

Bob

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

............. I know it's different in respect of water and sewerage as I keep getting flyers through the door for insurance in the event of a water pipe bursting or the sewer/drain collapsing between the street and the building. I have thought about the insurance

We looked into that, came to the conclusion its a waste of money. For what we would have paid on premiums over the years, we could have paid the waterboard the money to fix it and still had some left over, and we are not moving yet.

 

[Rob_the_rich]

Gas is similar, the supply pipework (including the shut off valve and the governor) is the responsibility of the gas transporter up to the meter, the meter is the responsibility of whoever company you pay your bills to, and the rest of the internal pipework is down to the property owner. The governor has a wire seal on it too, gas fitters have been known to use the services of the seal fairy to get a bit more gas pressure to save them from replacing undersized gas pipework to the appliances. This is not recommended however, someone can come along later and change the governor, and appliances can give off carbon monoxide if under or over-gassed.

Sewers are a bit odd. In London, if a sewer takes waste from more than one property (not including flats in the same property) then due to an agreement made by Thames Water in the seventies I think, it belongs to Thames Water, and they have responsibility for maintenance if it breaks or blocks. I have saved a couple of clients quite a lot of money by pointing this out.

 

[Andy™]

 In London, if a sewer takes waste from more than one property (not including flats in the same property) then due to an agreement made by Thames Water in the seventies I think, it belongs to Thames Water, and they have responsibility for maintenance if it breaks or blocks. I have saved a couple of clients quite a lot of money by pointing this out.

its not just london, iirc all shared pipes / drains are responsibility of local water board