We have recently moved house and we’re aware that the electrics would need to be replaced which is fine as we will be doing some major renovations in a couple of years, when it fits better around our jobs. In the meantime I asked an electrician if they could install a new socket in our garage to install a tumble drier. He has said he can’t do this as it would require a RCD socket and he can’t get an RCD for our consumer unit. I don’t really understand this, does this mean no electrician could do the work as it’s impossible or is it that he doesn’t want to do it? Sorry for my lack of knowledge, I have followed up asking him this question but he hadn’t replied.
RCD Question
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Sharpend
"It Just Is"
there are other alternatives to provide RCD protection to an independent circuit, however many sparks tend not to utilise such methods as it may involve less work?
Does your garage have existing wiring or would this be all new install?
Does your garage have existing wiring or would this be all new install?
Thank you. There is already a double socket but this is in use for a washing machine and fridge and there is wiring for the boiler which is in there. The wires for the socket are not set into the wall but run down on the surface. You can see this on the right side of this photo of the boiler.
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Sharpend
"It Just Is"
in your consumer unit do you have a mcb labelled garage?
I think so, sorry I don’t know what mcb is so took a photo
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Sharpend
"It Just Is"
So each of the smaller switches are MCB’s the larger switch on the left is an RCD, it has the test button on it.
Now given that the board has an RCD covering all circuits (not ideal, but there may be a reason for it such as earthing arrangements) including the garage, then why would you need an extra RCD installing?
Now given that the board has an RCD covering all circuits (not ideal, but there may be a reason for it such as earthing arrangements) including the garage, then why would you need an extra RCD installing?
I’m not really sure either. I think what you have said has encouraged me to find another electrician as I didn’t want to waste anyone’s time if it wasn’t possible, but it sounds as thought that it isn’t clear cut. Thank you!
Sharpend
"It Just Is"
Is there a consumer unit in the garage?
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Hello, welcome to the forum.
The electrical safety council have a website that can offer some unbiased consumer guidance to electrical related issues:-
e.g. Search RCD on their site brings up:-
https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/search/?q=RCD&p=1
With answers such as:-
https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/blog/why-you-need-an-rcd-fitted-in-your-home-asap/
Roll back 20+ years and RCD's were not required by UK wiring reglations..
then gradually over time various requirements have been implemented such as:-
RCD's for external wiring.
RCD's for sockets likely to supply external appiances.
RCD's recommend by some manufactures. (e.g. electric showers)
RCD's for sockets used by unskilled persons.
RCD's for cable buried in walls.
RCD's for all circuits in bathrooms.
RCD's for all circuits supplying luminaires (lights!).
Many older CU's had a single RCD or two RCD's protecting multiple MCB circuits..
Which means a single fault could remove power from all or half of your installation.
Whereas, individual RCD/RCBO's for each circuit will minimise nuisance tripping, and the inconvenience due to a single fault.
Basically, current wiring regulations now recommend that ALL wiring in a domestic installation has individual RCD/RCBO protection per circuit..
And whilst there is no requirement to upgrade older installations done to earlier issues of BS7671 wiring regulations.
Industry guidance and good practice recommend that ALL alterations/additions should comply with current wiring regulations,
and appropriate certificates issued with a signed declaration that the alterations you have done, do comply with current regulations.
Assuming the existing RCD is fully functional, I would have no issues with adding your additional socket.
But I would also add a covering letter recommending that the consumer unit is upgraded to a fully equipped RCBO board at your earliest convenience as this could reduce major inconvenience if you had an earth leakage fault whilst away on holiday, or at an obscure time of a weekend or bank holiday when you are unable to restore essential power to fridges / freezers / boilers / ovens etc..
Thank you that is helpful
BorisJ
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There is no reg requiring individual RCBOs.
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There should be AND they should be double pole......they missed a trick there
actually, if you bought a copy of the regs and understood them, the case for RCBOs is heavily implied, if not stated.
can’t specify the regs as my book is over 4000 miles away
Not as such, but there are regs requiring minimising inconvenience in the case of a fault. The logical conclusion of that is dual RCD boards are not compliant.
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Erm.....???????
actually, if you bought a copy of the regs and understood them, the case for RCBOs is heavily implied, if not stated.
can’t specify the regs as my book is over 4000 miles away
It is not uncommon to find nit-picking, petty argumentative posts on social media forums such as this...
And I would never dare to cast derogatory comments re any other members...
But I think, if you had got a copy of your current regs book to hand...
I would hazard a guess that numbers such as:
531.3.2 (ii) [page 156]
and 314 (iv) [page 56]
would come to mind?
But I could be wrong, and I am open to correction by other forum members older & wiser than myself..
BorisJ
Well-known member
Both of those are very vague and my original statement "There is no reg requiring individual RCBOs." is true.
it's still acceptable under certain circumstances not to have RCD protection for a cct, so it wouldn't state RCBOs are required for everything, however 2 RCDs for a board definetly doesn't meet the requirmeent to minimise risk/ inconvenience in the event of a fault ( unless you only have 2 ccts of course). Like a lot of the regs, the wording allows for application of common sense and to meet circumstances that the writers may not have thought of, by application of good electrical knowledge.
This type of thread is why i love the forum , thanks to all posters , cos as an aspiring electrician i have to yet to do my 18th edition , i have had the big blue book sitting on the table for 18 months now and every time i open it , it starts laughing at me like some deranged vampire!!!
By the way what does the red and white down arrow mean on borisj 's reply , disagree??
By the way what does the red and white down arrow mean on borisj 's reply , disagree??
The red and white down arrow is a descob
It’s the polite way to disagree with a poster
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