Wago connectors pulled on assessment

[steptoe]

^^^^ :slap

 

[kerching]

Chocolate Hobnobs [plain NOT milk]..end of. NOT open to discussion [or at a push ANY biscuit wrapped in foil]

Generic biccies [Aldi/Lidl] not allowed.......... :coat

 

[Sidewinder]

My client priority list goes:

Those who pay immediately or early.

Those who pay on time.

Those who are polite & friendly.

Those who provide brekkie, bikkies & coffee.

Those who provide bikkies & coffee.

Those who provide coffee.

Those who don't.

Any that provide a combination of the above in the order given get my best service!

 

[Apache]

Chocolate Hobnobs [plain NOT milk]..end of. NOT open to discussion [or at a push ANY biscuit wrapped in foil]Generic biccies [Aldi/Lidl] not allowed.......... :coat

It's a crime against humanity spoiling an institution such as a Hobnob with chocolate..............

 

[springcrocus]

Not off topic, but a slight aside, when I had my annual assessment back in March I showed my assessor a few certificates and in one of them I had put in the "departures" box that I had used maintenance-free connectors. He said "You're the first person I've seen to record that. What did you use, and where?".

I explained that I had replace an overfilled JB in the loft with a Wago box and push-fit connectors because I wanted to fill it even more.

His reply was that it was obvious that I had actually opened the new regs book and had a look!

Then we moved on to the next part of the assessment.

 

[Cactus Jack]

Hi Guys, In reponse to your questions here is some information about the Wagobox Junction Box System, Wago connectors and the MF Logo

What is the MF logo?

The MF logo was introduced in BS5733:2010 "General Requirements for electrical accessories" as a marking that can be used on accessories to indicate that the accessory doesn't require further inspection, testing or maintenance after installation.

What is BS5733:2010?

BS5733 is a British Standard which specifies tests to check the safety in normal use of electrical accessories not covered by other specific British standards.

Is the MF logo mentioned in BS7671: Requirements for Electrical Installations?

Yes, the MF logo is mentioned in BS7671 Amendment No. 1. 2011 in Section 526.3 (vi).

Section 5 deals with the Selection and Erection of Equipment.

Subsection 526. Electrical Connections:

Requirement 526.3 Every connection shall be accessible for inspection, testing and maintenance except for the following:

...

526.3(vi) Equipment complying with BS5733 for a maintenance free accessory and marked with the symbol MF and installed in accordance with the manufacturers instructions.

How has this changed from the previous edition of BS7671?

In the previous edition of BS7671 the regulation 526.3(v) was "A joint forming part of the equipment complying with the appropriate product standard."

This was widely accepted as a BSEN60670-22 junction box with maintenance free terminals as this is indicated in Appendix 15 of BS7671: Ring and Radial final circuit arrangements: "A junction box to BSEN60670-22 with screw terminals must be accessible for inspection, testing and maintenance or alternatively use maintenance free terminals."

The Wagobox and Wago terminals are still Maintenance Free, that hasn't changed. It's BS7671 that has changed and now requires an accessory to use terminals tested to BS5733 Maintenance Free screwless terminals.

So is BSEN60670-22 not an applicable junction box standard anymore?

BSEN60670-22 is still the applicable standard for junction boxes and continues to be referenced in many places within BS7671.

What does the MF mark mean?

The MF mark indicates that an accessory "does not require further inspection, testing or maintenance after installation in a circuit and incorporates screwless terminals (re: 14.5 Terminals for use within maintenance free accessories) and cable clamps to secure associated cables" (From section 3.31 BS5733:2010).

Section 14.5 within the BS5733:2010 details a number of tests that need to be performed on the screwless terminals to establish that they are appropriate for use in a MF marked accessory.

Can the Wagobox have the MF mark?

In order to put an MF mark on the Wagobox we must use terminals which satisfy the tests set out in BS5733 for maintenance free screwless terminals.

The Wagobox and Wagobox - Light boxes are designed to be used with the Wago 773, 222 and 224 ranges of screwless terminals. These terminals are already tested compliant with BSEN90998-1 (Connecting devices for low voltage circuits for household and similar purposes), as well as:

Mechanical Tests

* Pull-Out Test to IEC/EN 60947-7-1, IEC/EN 60998-2-2, IEC/EN 60999-1

* Shock Test to IEC/EN 60068-2-27, 60068-2-30; Railway Applications IEC/EN 61373

* Vibration Test to IEC/EN 60068-2-6; Shipbuilding GL, LR, DNV; Railway Applications EN 61373

Electrical Tests

* Temperature-Rise Test to IEC/EN 60947-7-1, IEC/EN 60998-1, IEC/EN 1-61984

* Derating Curve to IEC/EN 60512-5-2

* Voltage Drop Test to IEC/EN 60947-7-1

* Short-Time Withstand Current Test (Short-Circuit Withstand Capacity) to IEC/EN 60947-7-1

* Insulation Parameters to IEC/EN 60664-1

* Power-Frequency Withstand Voltage Test to IEC/EN 60998-1

* Rated Impulse Withstand Voltage Test to IEC/EN 60664-1

* IP Ratings for Electrical Equipment to IEC/EN 60529

Material Tests

* Needle Flame Test to IEC/EN 60695-2-2

* Glow-Wire Test to IEC/EN 60998-1, IEC/EN 60695-2-11

Environmental Tests

* Temperature Cycling Test to IEC/EN 60947-7-1, IEC/EN 60998-2-2

* Industrial Atmospheres to EN ISO 6988, IEC 60068-2-42, IEC/EN 60068-2-60

* Salt Spray Test to IEC/EN 60068-2-11, Marine Applications GL, LR, DNV

* Quick Change of Temperature to IEC/EN 60068-2-14

* Damp Heat, Cyclic (12 + 12 Hour Cycle) to IEC/EN 60068-2-30, Marine Applications GL, LR, DNV as a wide range of Mechanical, Electrical, Material and environmental tests.

They have also been extensively tested and approved by many safety standards (e.g. UL,KEMA EUR, DVE, CSA etc) for use in different geographic areas around the world.

Incredibly, BS5733:2010 only references one (Vibration Test to IEC/EN 60068-2-6) of the above internationally recognised tests. All the other MF terminal tests in BS5733 are neither documented or used in any other internationally recognised product standard.

Despite all of the above and the flawless operation of billions of Wago 773, 222 and 224 terminals around the world, these new tests will still need to be performed on the Wago 773, 222 and 224 terminals before we can consider putting an MF symbol on the Wagobox or Wagobox-Light for the UK market.

These tests are being done and when we have had verification that the Wago terminals comply with the MF terminal requirements set out in BS5733 we will then be able to mark the Wagobox system with an MF.

Why is it taking so long?

Wago are a large multinational company with an excellent safety record that has spent millions of Euros developing and testing their products to internationally recognised product standards. BS5733 is not a product standard and the MF terminal tests detailed in BS5733 are not required anywhere else other than in BS7671 which is a UK standard. The new tests include very long duration tests which take an extended period to complete and are consequently very expensive. This additional need for further tests on a product already in production has taken some considerable commitment and effort by Wago in Germany to include this further testing into their scheduled program of work.

How does this effect my past installations?

It doesn't. Standards are never applied retrospectively.

What about installations I've done recently?

Please refer to 511.2 in BS7671. At this stage it's a case of the designer of the installation being satisfied that the use of the product offers the same degree of safety as afforded by compliance.

I hope that this has been helpful, if you have any further queries regarding MF and the Wagobox system then please do get in touch and we will be happy to try and answer any questions.

Thanks for this Mr Wagobox.

I have read your post and the regs many times and think that it all narrows down to one question: Does the wago system "offer the same degree of safety as afforded by compliance I.e. The test in Bs5733 that wago has not completed?

Without a test result how can I argue that it does?

Thanks in advance,

CJ

 

[Manator]

CJ rest assured that the wago connectors if suitably terminated to manufacturer's instructions will fully comply. The point you have that can be argued is the fact that BS7671 allows the use of such new technology, and another avenue for discussion is the fact that before the amendment they did indeed comply. If you need help in drafting a letter to the NICEIC to explain these points, then feel free to ask, as many of us including Wagobox one of our forum sponsors would be more than happy to assist.

 

[unphased]

I would be tempted to show that reply from Wago to the over zealous NIC assessor so that he doesn't pull any more perfectly adequate mf joints.

 

[baldelectrician]

Remember- the NICEIC don't write the regs, they only think they do

As far a BS7671 goes- if the manufacturer says they are MF then that's it- they comply

Manufacturers instructuons override BS7671, end of

Tell your NIC guy to put that in his pipe and smoke it...

 

[SteveT]

Brilliant

 

[mikep]

Was your inspector under 4 foot six and had small feet, cos that would explain it !!!

 

[professional]

Nice Post RayI'd use them any day and tell the NIC numptie where to go and get his breakfast

Wago Din rail connectors are the dogs by the way

I DO tell the NICEIC numpties where to go .... but at present I am still unsure as to the value of the contract they have out on me .... :slap

 

[Manator]

Remember- the NICEIC don't write the regs, they only think they do As far a BS7671 goes- if the manufacturer says they are MF then that's it- they comply

Manufacturers instructuons override BS7671, end of

Tell your NIC guy to put that in his pipe and smoke it...

To gain the approval of the symbol MF, Wago have had to go through more testing, remember that only the UK have this regulation, so they are defending their UK market at a great cost to themselves. If it was me I would tell the UK to do one.

 

[professional]

I will, however, be forcing up the price on my head at the Ricoh this year.

Hopefully, due to the new laws on charity donations, this will seriously inconvenience the NICEIC as they will now be unable to limit their tax liability by gift-aiding their profits to the (totally unconnectedROTFWL) Electrical Safety Council. ]

 

[Manator]

I will, however, be forcing up the price on my head at the Ricoh this year. Hopefully, due to the new laws on charity donations, this will seriously inconvenience the NICEIC as they will now be unable to limit their tax liability by gift-aiding their profits to the (totally unconnectedROTFWL) Electrical Safety Council. ]

I have long wondered who you actually was, with that information I have now narrowed my options. PMSL

 

[Sidewinder]

I will, however, be forcing up the price on my head at the Ricoh this year. Hopefully, due to the new laws on charity donations, this will seriously inconvenience the NICEIC as they will now be unable to limit their tax liability by gift-aiding their profits to the (totally unconnectedROTFWL) Electrical Safety Council. ]

IS THAT POSSIBLE?

After the debate last year, and that was not with the NICEIC, I though that ALL the scams had a joint contact out on you!

 

[professional]

Hopefully, the contract for the hit will have been drawn up by one of their drive-by PIR merchants with the usual degree of accuracy - so keep a lookout for some old dear in Dorset with a wooden leg in the "Obituaries column" ....

 

[professional]

I have long wondered who you actually was, with that information I have now narrowed my options. PMSL

The fact that all of the Schemes have decided to cease "open" Q&A sessions in any public place since the mauling they received 3 years ago is purely coincidental I`m sure ....

I showed them the courtesy and respect that was due to organisations that have coerced in ruining a venerable trade.

 

[Sidewinder]

I corrected your errorSecurity normally have photos of Prof at the doors :slap

Only one typo though!

 

[professional]

I WANT open debate about the Trade and the future of the industry - they spend a small fortune of OUR MONEY AVOIDING the possibility of any such occurrence ....

You`d think an electrical safety charity would welcome the opportunity to have a nice chat!