Sharpend
"It Just Is"
Then we could do away with money as it would have no value (not that it has any anyway) and we’d all be free!!!!
What do think the biggest changes in our trade have been?
- Thread starter Evans Electric
- Start date
Help Support Talk Electrician Forum:
Hi all, new poster.
Biggest changes? Well funny enough I have been doing a sort of business development plan today as a small business. Nothing too complex, just working out where we are and where they want to be. So I wrote out what the industry was like from as business point of view 10 years ago and now. Now this is for jobs of say £30k - £100k, but most fairly small commercial fit out run into that.
So 10 years ago I used to receive drawings an specifications my mail. Not usually too complex as paper and postage cost money so the clients tended to send the minimum.
5 years ago I received the same stuff but by email as PDF's, occasional as zip files. But usually not too complex.
Now we get sent a drop box file with every drawing door the entire building project, the mech specification, 200 page electrical specification, and on, and on. So pricing a job has become blooming complicated and time consuming.
Nearly by every job requires design calls and cad drawing to the latest version of AutoCad. So that's a lot of time and subscription money.
in five years from now the same jobs will probably require to be done on Revit and be fully BIM standard.
so it worries me that in five to ten years, the only jobs a micro business will be able to do will be small domestic work, and small commercial jobs and maintenance. The really big boys will have taken us out of the equation.
i might be wrong but that is certainly what I am seeing drop on my desk.
Biggest changes? Well funny enough I have been doing a sort of business development plan today as a small business. Nothing too complex, just working out where we are and where they want to be. So I wrote out what the industry was like from as business point of view 10 years ago and now. Now this is for jobs of say £30k - £100k, but most fairly small commercial fit out run into that.
So 10 years ago I used to receive drawings an specifications my mail. Not usually too complex as paper and postage cost money so the clients tended to send the minimum.
5 years ago I received the same stuff but by email as PDF's, occasional as zip files. But usually not too complex.
Now we get sent a drop box file with every drawing door the entire building project, the mech specification, 200 page electrical specification, and on, and on. So pricing a job has become blooming complicated and time consuming.
Nearly by every job requires design calls and cad drawing to the latest version of AutoCad. So that's a lot of time and subscription money.
in five years from now the same jobs will probably require to be done on Revit and be fully BIM standard.
so it worries me that in five to ten years, the only jobs a micro business will be able to do will be small domestic work, and small commercial jobs and maintenance. The really big boys will have taken us out of the equation.
i might be wrong but that is certainly what I am seeing drop on my desk.
Well computers have taken thousands of other jobs , why not ours .
About 15 yrs ago we were working at a local factory , their boss asked us to go through the offices and isolate and make safe all the electric except lighting .
Half glazed 1950's offices , Accounts, Buying , Wages, design , etc All empty , desks , chairs, filing cabinets , box files, defunct telephone s , calender 5 years out of date .
I said it was like the Marie Celeste ....their boss said well thats what happens when you computerize systems , all those jobs went .
About 15 yrs ago we were working at a local factory , their boss asked us to go through the offices and isolate and make safe all the electric except lighting .
Half glazed 1950's offices , Accounts, Buying , Wages, design , etc All empty , desks , chairs, filing cabinets , box files, defunct telephone s , calender 5 years out of date .
I said it was like the Marie Celeste ....their boss said well thats what happens when you computerize systems , all those jobs went .
I’ll admit, before I retired I spent more time in front of a computer than with a screwdriver in my hand.
Well I wasnt saying jobs would disappear, I was saying that micro companies that at present can carry out jobs as a contractor up to £250k - £500k. Five years from now I think they may not be able to because the pre qualification questionnaire will probably insist on Revit.
so the jobs theirselves will not go, but the contracts will be taken away from small contractors and only be handed out to the larger contractors, or the few small contractors that have invested in Cad, Revitalise, been on BIM course, etc.
now that will be a big change, which is what the post was asking about. And more fundamental that the SDS drill.
so the jobs theirselves will not go, but the contracts will be taken away from small contractors and only be handed out to the larger contractors, or the few small contractors that have invested in Cad, Revitalise, been on BIM course, etc.
now that will be a big change, which is what the post was asking about. And more fundamental that the SDS drill.
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2009
- Messages
- 14,673
- Reaction score
- 828
Interesting that you refer to 250K companies as "micro"
How would you refer to a one man sole trader with a turnover of barely £20K
How would you refer to a one man sole trader with a turnover of barely £20K
nano micro?
Micro is basically any business under 5 people, according to the council. As a Micro buisness I regularley turned over £450k+ in the height if the solar boom, but that was knis of easy to do when parts are expensive.
A tax expert . :tongueincheek
Highest value job I ever did as Sole Trader was around £40K .
Only hit I took was for £5K
How would I describe a sole trader with a £20k turnover?
well as already said, it would be a part time business I would imagine.
if you have your own business as a sole trader I would think the minimum average charge per hour depending on what region you are in would be about £25 - £30 per hour if you are acting as the main contractor, not subbing to another electrical contractor. So if you have 6 weeks off a year you would still turn over more that £45k per year if you did 40 hours per week. Plus any material supplied.
If you do commercial or industrial work, or new housing estates, a job of £250k is not actually that huge is it?
if you have a micro business of five or less staff, you could easily take on jobs of that size. A 45 house property housing development could come to that with a reasonable specification. A fit out of a sheltered housing complex, a retail or trade outlet with a warehouse and office area could easily be that.
as I was describing, the way the industry is changing is to include all associated trades into the electrical package of many contracts now. So expect to have to include all the specialist contractors for security, access control, lightning protection, fire safety, etc., within you price. Commercial builders and developers, local councils, are sending the specifications out like this on most jobs now. And they want you to sign off a Collaterall Warranty for the design as well. Have a look at that and see the implications. That's IMO, is the biggest change to our industry and its happening very quickly.
i used to moan when someone sent through a huge envelope of drawings with a fifty page spec. Now I get ten times the amount to scrutinise for things that can' catch you out in a Dropbox.
well as already said, it would be a part time business I would imagine.
if you have your own business as a sole trader I would think the minimum average charge per hour depending on what region you are in would be about £25 - £30 per hour if you are acting as the main contractor, not subbing to another electrical contractor. So if you have 6 weeks off a year you would still turn over more that £45k per year if you did 40 hours per week. Plus any material supplied.
If you do commercial or industrial work, or new housing estates, a job of £250k is not actually that huge is it?
if you have a micro business of five or less staff, you could easily take on jobs of that size. A 45 house property housing development could come to that with a reasonable specification. A fit out of a sheltered housing complex, a retail or trade outlet with a warehouse and office area could easily be that.
as I was describing, the way the industry is changing is to include all associated trades into the electrical package of many contracts now. So expect to have to include all the specialist contractors for security, access control, lightning protection, fire safety, etc., within you price. Commercial builders and developers, local councils, are sending the specifications out like this on most jobs now. And they want you to sign off a Collaterall Warranty for the design as well. Have a look at that and see the implications. That's IMO, is the biggest change to our industry and its happening very quickly.
i used to moan when someone sent through a huge envelope of drawings with a fifty page spec. Now I get ten times the amount to scrutinise for things that can' catch you out in a Dropbox.
Last edited by a moderator:
My turnover minus materials for the previous firm would have been 60k+/pa based on a 5 day week.
They charged a lot for materials...
They charged a lot for materials...
Last edited by a moderator:
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2011
- Messages
- 5,456
- Reaction score
- 69
Back to industry changes...
Tracing paper in the site loos anyone?
Not trying to start a smear campaign...
:innocent
Tracing paper in the site loos anyone?
Not trying to start a smear campaign...
:innocent
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2009
- Messages
- 14,673
- Reaction score
- 828
Yep that's right. I regard myself as semi retired doing just enough work to barely earn a living.
We used to know those as "Skid sheets"
Last edited by a moderator:
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2011
- Messages
- 5,456
- Reaction score
- 69
At school we would be sent to the loos if we ran out of tracing paper. Never did us any harm.....aside from the stomach bugs we probably picked up
Probably boosted our immune systems and we were all as skinny as rakes!
Last edited by a moderator:
So :
Teachers - no personal experience, but I would say the lack of discipline has a lot to do with the outcomes these days, plus the namby pamby liberal elite won't let the, fail ........... so our schools are producing kids who have no idea anout work ethic.........
Policemen - the PCSO's were the creation of Gordon Brown, they are employed by the Councils ........... I totally agree with you - why not just fund more proper policmen?
Nurses - to start a career in any form of nursing now you have to be degree "cabliber"- which allowed the NHS to suppport workers AND based on the experience of the misses, the young ones get qualified, don't like doing shifts and either move into admin roles or leave the industry.....
Sparks - seeing as any Tom, Dick or Abdhul thinks they are a spare and nobody cares ............ or stops them, so we have all the trades doing sparking these days
Firemen - more interesting - their working practices have made them be be far more "active" - my neighbour used to go the "work" at the firestation for a night shift, then do his 2nd job as a decorating the very next day - these days he can't do that.
Not wiping your backside, that was for sure!
I remember that stuff... wierdly the dispensers were made by British Steel where my grandad worked.
:lol:
Dicipline and work ethic is far more to do with parents - I am a liberal minded person, as I'm sure most regulars on here will know. This did not stop me raising me son with a work ethic or respect for other people and authority. He's studying maths at Uni, and has 2 part time jobs, 1 of which is a night shift, we are house hunting this week to buy a house - he's financing this himself at 20 years old.
Police are funded from council tax - not sure if they get any central government money these days? I disagreed with PCSOs, but they have proved to be bery useful cheap coppers, walking the beat in a way proper coppers do not have time to do.
Izal medicated loo roll, definetly not soft......
