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Electrical Certificate Problem - Advice Needed Please


cuthbert

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I have had a small extension built using sub contractors

I paid a bona fide part P registered electrician to do the electrical installation.

His work was spot on and he tested all the circuits on completion for compliance and I did see the results.

I was to receive the certificates within a month, however he suddenly became very ill and I did not get any of them. 

I have waited a long time for him to sort it out but now, as a result of his illness he has ceased trading altogether.

I have spoken to him recently but he is a shadow of his former self and is unable to help me. 

Because of this the building work has not been signed off.

Is it within the guidelines of the part P regs  to get another company to redo the tests to comply with building regulations

Can anybody advise me on the best way to proceed.

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Murdoch

Oh dear, a month to get the Certs????

That's bull.

Certs should be issued on completion and the LABC notification for part P should be done then too.

You need to approach your local building control officer to see what they will accept. Be prepared to spend more money.

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Steve3948

Find out which Scheme Provider he was with, Napit, NIC or whatever, contact them to confirm he was registered with them, then explain what's happened.

They should sort it out.

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binky

totally with Steve on this, the scheme provider is there to complain to when things go wrong. Assuming your electrician was registered.....

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SPECIAL LOCATION

So this guy was well enough to do the work and the tests...  (any probably bank your money)

 

But the next day fell so drastically ill that he couldn't spend another 30mins to either print his certificate out electronically or write it up manually on hand written sheets???? 

 

Did he manage to write out your invoice to give you the bill???

 

 

This does sound very dodgy to me...

rather like classic builder or builders mate who does a bit of electrics doing the work......

 

As has been suggested first try to get onto his electrical contractor scheme provider 

(which is what I assume you mean by Part P registered..?)

and complain to them to sort it out...

 

I would guess you will find his contractor scheme name..  (ELECSA, NAPIT, NICEIC etc..)  

and his reg number on the copy of his invoice that you paid..

 

Unless you find he was not actually registered with anyone...

 

in which case get back onto your LABC to see what they will accept??

 

Guinness

 

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Speak to your local building control office, the people who want the electrical certificates to sign it off. Explain to them what has happened. They will hopefully allow an EICR and sign it off.

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Thanks to all for your helpful replies.

 

I don't recall what scheme he was under although I think his van did have that information on.

I'm certain he was not bogus or a builder's mate and has genuinely ceased trading through illness though.

I didn't get an invoice or any paperwork which i expected in the post

I'm a bit worried that contacting the BCO will open a can of worms, although I suppose that will have to be done sooner or later.

 

Is this sort mess up a common occurrence and do they normally allow another electrician to come in to test the installation

to have it signed off and how much will that cost me approximately? 

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Andy™

depends on the council & cost could be anything

 

as for building regs, its actually the home owner who is responsible for ensuring compliance, not the electrician / builder (although many of us are registered to notify ourselves)

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ProDave

So if you didn't get an invoice, I take it you haven't paid him yet?

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SPECIAL LOCATION

Thanks to all for your helpful replies.

 

I don't recall what scheme he was under although I think his van did have that information on.

I'm certain he was not bogus or a builder's mate and has genuinely ceased trading through illness though.

I didn't get an invoice or any paperwork which i expected in the post

I'm a bit worried that contacting the BCO will open a can of worms, although I suppose that will have to be done sooner or later.

 

Is this sort mess up a common occurrence and do they normally allow another electrician to come in to test the installation

to have it signed off and how much will that cost me approximately? 

 

 

The complication is that just testing an installation is NOT the same as completing and signing an Electrical Installation certificate...

(what the council want to see)

 

An installation certificate (or minor works certificate for small jobs) includes a signed declaration confirming that design, Installation and testing has been done in accordance with current wiring regs & building regs...

 

This of course carries some liabilities, as if at a later date someone finds that work does NOT comply..

there are grounds for pursuing the installer (he who signed the certificate) to put the work right at no additional cost... 

 

 

The LABC normally want an Installation certificate for any new building work, or someone who can self certify the electrical work to take this legal responsibly for ensuring compliance with BS7671 and Part-P..

 

If you are an electrician who is register with an approved contractor scheme it is not complicated or time consuming to completer all of the correct paperwork when you have done each job..  

And you have an obligation to notify all your work within a deadline to ensure the customer gets their building regs compliance certificate in a reasonable time..

(think its 30days??  but can't remember as always do mine within a week of finishing a job!!)

 

 

So....

Your LABC may accept just an inspection and testing report called an EICR (electrical installation condition report)...

OR they may not...

I believe they do actually have the right to ask you to cut back plaster and building structure to expose cable routes etc to verify correct installation practices..

If they so wished!

 

Personally I still get the opinion that what you are describing sounds more and more like rouge / dodgy builder/electrician scenario...

 

No certifiucates..

No invoice...

No paper trail to identify a person with the work????

it could be an indication that the work is below standard....

Or maybe someone doing a foreigner whilst working for another firm...

Or doing a Tax  avoidance job...

etc..

etc..

I presume you also had no written quote or estimate for the work either???

 

 

P.S.  re the van thing...

there have been numerous cases of traders pretending to be a member of a scheme that they have never been a member of..

or who that are no longer a member of, either kicked out or just chose not to renew subscription.

even though their van has a few official looking stickers on it.

 

How long ago was this work done???

Who did you pay..  the builder or the electrician?

Where about in the midlands are you

 

If you have no idea who he claimed to be with..

you are just going to have to call your council building control

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Murdoch

Hum..... me thinks that there was never a (real) sparky on the job.

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binky

if you know what he was called check him out on the NICEIC / NAPIT / ELECSA websites, or google his buisness website to track down his registration.

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Evans Electric

You show you are in the Midlands Cuthbert , are you in Brum ?     In cases like this Birmingham's Building Control have accepted an inspecton cert , I've done a couple in similar cases .   ( Hope you're not in Solihull )

 

Tell whoever it is whats happened and ask if they will accept an inspection from another contractor or will they do one themselves . ( Well they will as they are , I believe , a third party inspector anyway . 

 

You need what was a PIR  & is now an EICR  (  Electrical Installation & Condition Report )

 

Or as the others say . as the builder who he is , look him up , & approach his Part P Competent Person's Organisation which will be , probably,  NICEIC , ELECSA, NAPPIT, STROMA , 

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Andy™

now that 'competent person' is not in 7671, will that website now be changing to skilledperson.co.uk?

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kerching

now that 'competent person' is not in 7671, will that website now be changing to skilledperson.co.uk?

Knowing how the Scams like the money ....ALL charities you know?!?!

It should be called

CHEQUE A Trade.con

Just saying

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cuthbert

I have since found out that he was with a scheme but did not renew recently. They have no record of my installation. I will have to contact the BOC to see what they say.

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Murdoch

I have since found out that he was with a scheme but did not renew recently. They have no record of my installation. I will have to contact the BOC to see what they say.

 

On the basis that he was registered when he did the work I would WRITE to the SCHEME and get them and the sparky to sort it out. We are given 30 days to register once the job is complete.

 

Over to you.

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ProDave

There are two possibilities here.

 

Either he WAS a member of a scheme when he did the job so he should provide details of that and you can chase it with the scheme.

 

OR his membership renewal was due before he did your job so when he did your job he was a lapsed member. If so he was using the scheme's name without their permission and past examples have shown this is a much more serious offence than doing poor work, so again the scheme should be very interested if a lapsed member is still using their name.

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Andy™

or he may have been registered when the job was started, but not when it was finished

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SPECIAL LOCATION

I have waited a long time for him to sort it out but now, as a result of his illness he has ceased trading altogether.

I have spoken to him recently but he is a shadow of his former self and is unable to help me. 

Because of this the building work has not been signed off.

 

 

I have since found out that he was with a scheme but did not renew recently. They have no record of my installation. I will have to contact the BOC to see what they say.

I am not surprised he has not renewed recently, as you said earlier he has ceased trading and has been very ill...

Can we have some timescales and dates to all of these events...

How long ago did your building works start..?

When did they finish..?

When did you last have communication with the electrician..?

When did his membership of whatever scheme actually end..?

I still cannot see any logical reason why someone who was a pukka member of an electrical contracting body,

did not issue all the correct paperwork within a few days of completing the job...

From the limited information given it does sound like someone has conned you and maybe ripped you off claiming to be something they were not in order to do the work..

Thanks for coming back with this new info...

Please do keep us informed of how it progresses..

As you say I think you need to have a chat with your LABC see what they will accept top get your work signed off.

 

Guinness

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sparks2911

Hi.... try to find a local electrician who is a registered 3rd party certifier. He will be able to inspect and test the installation and certificate it. He will need the details of the original installer for certificate purposes and this will be accepted by labc.

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Murdoch

Hi.... try to find a local electrician who is a registered 3rd party certifier. He will be able to inspect and test the installation and certificate it. He will need the details of the original installer for certificate purposes and this will be accepted by labc.

 

Not if the OP lives in Guildford - they will NOT accept any 3rd party testing except by their own "approved" suppliers - and they are not cheap!

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sparks2911

Not sure that an labc can stipulate that their own approved inspectors can only be used. If the inspector is approved to undertake 3rd party certification ( which involves close scrutiny of both knowledge and qualifications) then that should be sufficient. If you have had problems with refusal of guildford labc accepting certificate then maybe you need to inform your scheme provider to educate them.

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Murdoch

Not sure that an labc can stipulate that their own approved inspectors can only be used. If the inspector is approved to undertake 3rd party certification ( which involves close scrutiny of both knowledge and qualifications) then that should be sufficient. If you have had problems with refusal of guildford labc accepting certificate then maybe you need to inform your scheme provider to educate them.

 

 

Guildford DO THIS. and even when I helped a client word an email to them they weren't giving in.

 

As for 3rd Party - thats a logs of dogs poo - I'm now with Stroma and that "gives me" 3rd party sign off as part of the standard package, so no closer scrutiny of knowledge and qualifications - not that I'm going to use it!

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