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SingingSparky

Domestic work no scheme

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SingingSparky

Hi, I've just requalified after 15 years out, my question is can I undertake a rewire I have landed even though I'm not part of CPS, full rewire is being done for 800 pounds with 200 of this going to labourer so really no budget to pay building control to come and inspect. surely if I'm qualified via City and Guilds for regards, partp, 2391-52 I don't have to be part of CPS and can just submit cert's directly to local building control.

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Sharpend

No and if you’re doing a full review for £800 then you’re racing to the bottom. 

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Murdoch

£800 for a rewire - what is it? a bedsit.

 

You are knowingly breaking the building regulations .......................... and if this is the way you intend to start off, I hope you have a stable to keep your horse in.

 

Scheme membership, along with lots of other costs like insurances, test equipment, calibration etc is what you have to budget for........ Stroma is only £288 PER YEAR. So thats less than £5 per week. or less than £1 per working day. 

 

 

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M107

£800 rewire :slap:redcard

courgette me I've just quoted that for one circuit to garden lights.

 

unless of course its a property on the scale of this one  http://www.thesmallesthouse.co.uk/history/

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SingingSparky

Steady guys, one of my points is these schemes want to sample your work, how can they sample my work if I haven't done any, hence going in so low to get some, it's only now I've asked myself (and now you) what's the legal obligations of this, I'm looking for advice so I can do things right, not a slating guys.

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Murdoch

I would ring each of the schemes and see if they will allow you to use this job as the one you use for your assessment .................. Elecsa used to be OK about this.

 

FYI I used the fuseboard change in my own house for my Elecsa Assessment..............

Edited by Murdoch

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M107

I did a cu swap in my house for my assessment way back when part P kicked off. But I d remember my assessor on recent meetings saying they do not allow you to use your own property any longer.

My advice go back to your customer & admit you made an error in the pricing & had not allowed for notification fee's, then hand them a re-quote with just the BC fee added.

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Onoff

Have a look at 3.8:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electrical-safety-approved-document-p

 

There exists a route where a competent person not registered with a scheme can do all the work themselves and get BC to sign off. HOWEVER it's up to BC how they approach this, whether they accept your certs etc or employ A N Other to verify your work. The approach varies from council to council but what you will not escape is the few hundred pounds they'll all want. It's really not cost effective not to join a scheme.

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Andy™
3 hours ago, SingingSparky said:

 full rewire is being done for 800 pounds with 200 of this going to labourer

 

WTGrape you re-wiring? a shed?

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Doc Hudson
5 hours ago, SingingSparky said:

Hi, I've just requalified after 15 years out, my question is can I undertake a rewire I have landed even though I'm not part of CPS, full rewire is being done for 800 pounds with 200 of this going to labourer so really no budget to pay building control to come and inspect. surely if I'm qualified via City and Guilds for regards, partp, 2391-52 I don't have to be part of CPS and can just submit cert's directly to local building control.

 

4 hours ago, SingingSparky said:

Steady guys, one of my points is these schemes want to sample your work, how can they sample my work if I haven't done any, hence going in so low to get some, it's only now I've asked myself (and now you) what's the legal obligations of this, I'm looking for advice so I can do things right, not a slating guys.

 

As far as I can remember when I did my electrical qualifications, along with all the practical nitty gritty, and the design calculations theory aspect, and the documentation and inspection and testing parts etc, there was also sections covering statutory law and legal duties and responsibilities of persons undertaking electrical work. How is it you can be both Re qualified yet not understand legal obligations? Was it one of these all to common sub-standard short courses you have attended?

 

Doc H. 

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SingingSparky

I've done my time as a youngster I've now re qualified gaining all the latest qualifications but to be honest I cannot see how it is I will be breaking the law the law was covered in the courses and the law doesn't state anything other than you need to be competent not you must be part of a scheme it just says you have to be competent which I am so I really can't understand how it is it would be breaking the law. Just because somebody comes out and asesses a person's work once a year or whatever interval it is that doesn't mean that said person is going to do the work the same every time and to the regulations and part P every time. I guess what I'm looking for is something in writing by the government that actually says i have to be part of a scheme to do your job which you have already qualified to do!

Edited by SingingSparky
Spelling

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Sharpend

You can choose to either go direct to building control and pay their fees or you join a CPS it’s completely your choice. 

 

The Part P is a part within the building regs which are statute law, law is to be adhered too, break it and face the consequence - again your choice. 

 

Bs7671 is not law merely guidance, however you will be expected to install to bs7671 as a minimum and any variations you will need a watertight reason to do so. 

Again your choice. 

 

I would have expected at least least one of your recent courses to have established prior to you qualifying. If not you did the wrong course at the wrong establishment with the wrong tutor. That was your choice. 

Edited by Sharpend

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Murdoch
41 minutes ago, SingingSparky said:

I've done my time as a youngster I've now re qualified gaining all the latest qualifications but to be honest I cannot see how it is I will be breaking the law the law was covered in the courses and the law doesn't state anything other than you need to be competent not you must be part of a scheme it just says you have to be competent which I am so I really can't understand how it is it would be breaking the law. Just because somebody comes out and asesses a person's work once a year or whatever interval it is that doesn't mean that said person is going to do the work the same every time and to the regulations and part P every time. I guess what I'm looking for is something in writing by the government that actually says i have to be part of a scheme to do your job which you have already qualified to do!

 

 

Keep digging ..........

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Onoff

The building regs are statutory instruments as in they are law. Part P of the building regs is therefore law. 

 

The thing in writing you are looking  for "from the government"  is Part P l posted the link up for.

 

If you don't notify them at least make damn sure your work complies to 7671, your test instruments are calibrated, your schedules properly completed and if I were you keep quiet about it!

Edited by Onoff

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SingingSparky

I know what your saying but it's contradictory, partp is the law and I've proved I'm competent in partp by taking and passing a city and guilds assessment, the requirements by law are to be competent and complete work in line with the rules set out in partp so why must I be part of a scheme too. I wonder if anyone has ever been prosecuted over it?

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Andy™
4 minutes ago, SingingSparky said:

 I wonder if anyone has ever been prosecuted over it?

 

not that im aware of

 

youre more likely to be prosecuted by the scams for saying you are registered with them when you are not

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Sharpend
2 hours ago, SingingSparky said:

I wonder if anyone has ever been prosecuted over it?

 

 You are welcome to be the first to try if you so wish. 

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Onoff
11 hours ago, SingingSparky said:

I know what your saying but it's contradictory, partp is the law and I've proved I'm competent in partp by taking and passing a city and guilds assessment, the requirements by law are to be competent and complete work in line with the rules set out in partp so why must I be part of a scheme too. I wonder if anyone has ever been prosecuted over it?

 

Part of the idea behind scheme membership is to ensure ONGOING competency. Surely you can see that? The idea is that it's an independent 3rd party to check your test kit is calibrated that year and that you have up to date copies of the regs etc as things do change.

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Mastbruch

What qualifications did you hold 15 yrs ago SS?

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M107

Singingsparky

Just take it as read you will at some point have to cough up £500 a year for registration or BC fee's no matter how qualified you think you are.............this will be pushed by the industry & your customer base, not forgetting solicitors on house sales where you have undertaken work, who have now started requesting part P notification documentation.

Nice little earner sending out reprints of certs & part P notifications, because home owners have lost them :D for the record it's £35 for a re-print/email, so far this year I've done four.

 

Have to admit the yearly assessment is a little farcical; once a year I have to take a day out (not earning) dust off the folder that contains the "visit documentation" & go to the trouble of getting a customer or three (I like the assessor to have a range of jobs to pick from) to be in so we can visit and undertake the same range of testing & regulation relevant questions.

Ze

R1+R2

Ring final test

IR

And a  Zs

Then its a quick rattle through what other building regs are A = structures B=fire, followed by a general chit chat on what could Nicey do to improve things.

Don't get me wrong I actually enjoy the assessments, because I'm confident in my own work (they all ways pick something up or advise a different method that could be used) & like testing.

 

I heard a whisper that the NICEIC are setting up assessment regions, rather than the current post code method..............means I will probably lose my two assessors who are spot on X(

 

My thoughts on how they could improve things (wonder if it ever gets passed on)

  • Start policing part P & not just logo misuse (the come back argument is, the cost of policing is huge & schemes cannot find a way to work together to cover the cost).
  • Start listening to the membership who openly criticise or give view points on open forums such as here. All feedback has some use whether it be positive or negative.
  • For new members continue with yearly assessments until year 5 of membership.
  • From year 5 of membership drop the assessments to every 2 or 3 years.
  • If a complaint about a member in respect of non compliance/poor work is made by anybody & not just the customer then investigate it. 
  • 2 complaints could trigger an assessment visit, but not to jobs cherry picked by the contractor.
  • Do some meaningful advertising to the public on using competent electricians, not the piss poor little banners in the sun paper they did some years ago, or the regional one off radio advert that again was carp.

 

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Murdoch

Wonder if the OP has PL insurance and calibrated test kit?

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SingingSparky

Cali cert, PL and IP actually my friend, this is not about cutting corners, it's about how this does not make sense. Answer me this, how is it I can apply for company membership and have employees come and go throughout a calendar year who quite possibly could have never been assessed yet on every company Van, letter head, website, etc I can still show a schemes logo and customers believe they are having a CPS confirmed electrician working in their home or business when actually they possibly haven't. Point is it's all a half measure, if BC need to police it then police it, random check like they do for H&S and food safety in the licencing and restaurant trades. They don't have to pay for council to come and check they aren't preparing food for people in unfit preparation areas so why do we have to pay for proving we are capable of doing our job?

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SingingSparky

Btw I have submitted an application online today for Stroma. Once I'm in I'm going to send notifications of work directly to my local BC and argue the toss with them if they try and say I can't submit them directly. Few customers have heard of the Niceic and none of them have heard of any of the others so really doesn't mean anything to them in any case, just a scam in my opinion. And that's me done on the subject, thanks for all the replies and joining in the debate.:signthankspin:

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Andy™
9 minutes ago, SingingSparky said:

Cali cert, PL and IP actually my friend, this is not about cutting corners, it's about how this does not make sense. Answer me this, how is it I can apply for company membership and have employees come and go throughout a calendar year who quite possibly could have never been assessed yet on every company Van, letter head, website, etc I can still show a schemes logo and customers believe they are having a CPS confirmed electrician working in their home or business when actually they possibly haven't. Point is it's all a half measure, if BC need to police it then police it, random check like they do for H&S and food safety in the licencing and restaurant trades. They don't have to pay for council to come and check they aren't preparing food for people in unfit preparation areas so why do we have to pay for proving we are capable of doing our job?

 

and there is the problem with the scams

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Murdoch
16 minutes ago, SingingSparky said:

Btw I have submitted an application online today for Stroma. Once I'm in I'm going to send notifications of work directly to my local BC and argue the toss with them if they try and say I can't submit them directly. Few customers have heard of the Niceic and none of them have heard of any of the others so really doesn't mean anything to them in any case, just a scam in my opinion. And that's me done on the subject, thanks for all the replies and joining in the debate.:signthankspin:

 

That seems more than pointless. You'll spend more time doing that than logging on to the Stroma site and notifying it properly.

 

Daft...........

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