10 Sq Mm Cable Termination At Switch For Shower

[says-les]

After trying the above, at deep square switch boxes on the ceiling or on the wall, I have come to the conclusion that the safest method is to use the 50 Amp Crabtree pull switch on the ceiling, or the rectangular style MK 50Amp switch on the wall.

I think this matter has been neglected by switch manufacturers in their design of 50 Amp pull switches.

The way I see it, is that there is great risk of causing insulation compression faults when 10 sq mm tails are crammed into the rear of a square 50 Amp switch.  It's bad enough when connecting 6 sq mm tails.  By using the Crabtree 50 Amp ceiling switch the cable tails enter straight into the switch and are connected AFTER the switch has been mounted on the ceiling - thus no cramming of tails in a very restricted enclosure behind a switch.

I would invite manufacturers or anyone who hasn't tried connecting a shower switch where 10 sq mm cable has been installed, to do so for themselves.

Nothing is impossible to the man who doesn't need to do it.

What do you think?

Cheers

 

[Evans Electric]

Hi   Sez Les    you have highlighted a long standing phenomea  which most of us have overcome by the very solution you have come up with .

That is ...the Crabtree 50A pull sw ...its the only way to go with 10mm   or as you also say ,  the vertical twin box with the DP switch for wall mounting .  

I wouldn't even attempt 10mm s in the usual deep moulded box.

May I give a hint that I have mentioned before    .....make sure your two 10mms through the ceiling  have Ls & Ns  oposite each other ready for the switch. 

 

[kerching]

Crabtree end of!

See all previous posts on the matter

And make sure you oriented the switch correctly AND far enough from the wall so you can get to the screws!

Made a slight bish with my first one!

 

[betty swollocks]

Once you've used a Crabtree you wouldn't go back

 

[apprentice87]

An eminent engineer, Sir James Nasmyth i believe, once said that; "any fool can tighten a nut with a pencil" It winds me up no end the crappy stuff that is about; Crap rotary isolators that are that small inside that it is next to impossible to terminate cables, poxy plastic enclosures with walls about 25 thou thick [that is the good ones] Where do they get all this junk??? what moron designs it?? Knockouts that are that hard to get out you have to be careful not to damage the box, and that is the metal ones, the plastic ones take me ages with a stanley knife to get out, otherwise it would be goodbye crappy enclosure....

Cheap junk, like everything in this el cheapo rubbish country from the politicians down. Is a terrible shame, but if you want something decent, unless it is american or german you might as well throw it away..... I feel sorry for people that will have no choice but to buy chinese lathes and millers and welders cos all the proper ones have gone. What has happened to our country and proper makes like Herbert, Asquith, and Dean Smith and Grace.

john...

 

[Sidewinder]

I lost a job on a Bulter & Asquith Elgar Mill on Tuesday because I had another job on!

Butlers took it off me.

 

[kerching]

Back in the day i used to work on Cincinnati, Pearson, Edwards, keetona, Pacific, then later Adira ( Portuguese ?). Then it went downhill into some Israeli stuff that was already pre rusted before it even got to the UK, it went rapidly downhill from there and I got out!

Back in the day when you could see what was happening and could hit a relay/contactor with the thick end of a screwdriver if it looked a bit moody!

Wouldn"t even know where to start now....even though I still have the schematics somewhere

Just beginning not to care as much as I used to

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

After trying the above, at deep square switch boxes on the ceiling or on the wall, I have come to the conclusion that the safest method is to use the 50 Amp Crabtree pull switch on the ceiling, or the rectangular style MK 50Amp switch on the wall.

I think this matter has been neglected by switch manufacturers in their design of 50 Amp pull switches.

The way I see it, is that there is great risk of causing insulation compression faults when 10 sq mm tails are crammed into the rear of a square 50 Amp switch.  It's bad enough when connecting 6 sq mm tails.  By using the Crabtree 50 Amp ceiling switch the cable tails enter straight into the switch and are connected AFTER the switch has been mounted on the ceiling - thus no cramming of tails in a very restricted enclosure behind a switch.

I would invite manufacturers or anyone who hasn't tried connecting a shower switch where 10 sq mm cable has been installed, to do so for themselves.

Nothing is impossible to the man who doesn't need to do it.

What do you think?

Cheers

Read the bowels of the forum archive and this very point has been made multiple times over....

AND ...

even if you can terminate the wire satisfactorily...

Then the square cord pull switches always fail more often than the round crabtree beasties.. 

no point wasting any time moaning about them..

just do it right first time and don't fit square shower cord-pulls

simples!

Guinness

 

[apprentice87]

Hi Paul,

Was it in Newport?? I know some people down the docks got at least two elga mills!! I know they got, [or at least did have] some electricians of their own, but i hardly think they are in quite the same league as you!!!

john..

 

[revjames]

Times like this make me happy I'm not a house basher! I did fit a 10.5kw shower in my own house 8 years ago and ran a 10mm. I did think about the possible struggle of faffing abouut wrestling at ceiling height with a switch that will seldom be used. So I fitted a 50A DP sw outside the bathroom adjacent to the shower position and being a hollow wall used a dry liner box. Piece of cake.

 

[batty]

I only use Crabtree these days if its a pull switch  but much rather have have a switch outside. I generally don't like electric showers though would never have one in my house.

 

[says-les]

Thanks everyone for your valued replies.

Cheers

 

[toml]

I always fit the square ones as they are cheap nd cheerful.......and the only pull switch ive ever replaced for being faulty was a crabtree

 

[says-les]

There's always the exception. Personally I think it's mad attempting to terminate 10 sq mm at a square switch. I wish the IET would comment officially on this.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I always fit the square ones as they are cheap nd cheerful.......and the only pull switch ive ever replaced for being faulty was a crabtree

This is quite probably reflected by a younger age and less experience......

I would hazard a guess that more longer service electricians have replaced faulty square shower switches

than the round crabtree design where the cables terminating into the fixed base.. 

not the movable switch plate.

Basic law of physics....

any termination that is not disturbed after it has been made off will be more secure than a termination which then has to be

pushed and secured back into a mounting box!...

6mm in a square shower switch is just as unreliable as 10mm...

Guinness

 

[Zeespark]

I have a square pull cord in My bathroom (Marbo) it replaced an MK one. When I installed the square pull cord originally, I cut out the plasterboard in the ceiling to fit a fast fix box rather than those unsightly monstrosities. If I was starting again, I would use one of the Crabtree round pull cords.

Andy Guinness

 

[toml]

This is quite probably reflected by a younger age and less experience......

I would hazard a guess that more longer service electricians have replaced faulty square shower switches

than the round crabtree design where the cables terminating into the fixed base..

not the movable switch plate.

Basic law of physics....

any termination that is not disturbed after it has been made off will be more secure than a termination which then has to be

pushed and secured back into a mounting box!...

6mm in a square shower switch is just as unreliable as 10mm...

Guinness

True. Plus the majority of my worknis new installs tbh