Down Lighter Top Tips Please

[1strangefish]

Hi all

First off, Merry Christmas and all that Jazz

I am after some help to speed up the time it takes me to install downlighters.

I use fire rated 12V IP65 downlights in bathrooms.  When installing with a pull cord I run the power in to a 5a 4 terminal JB.  Then 2 core to pull cord for live/SL.  Then run first cable from JB to first tranny

using a choc box (screwfix equivalent) and 3 terminal blocks, i loop in and out then connect the tranny and finally the tranny to the down light, then move on to repeat x number of times.  All usually done in loft space.

Completed job yesterday, where I had to measure out and drill the holes, while avoiding joists ETC

also install a showerlight fan using a similar approach to above but including a 3a FCU. Also added to pull cords.

 Had some issues wth the joists and the position of the fan which I had to overcome, but ended up being onsite for 8 hours with not much of a break.

Is there a quicker/easier way of doing this as it seems to be taking me for ever.

Any help you guys could offer would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers in advance

Fish

 

[NozSpark]

Whenever I price for down lights I always account for 1 hour per fitting as a minimum. It's the setting out that takes the time

 

[1strangefish]

Hi Noz

Thanks,  would you also include the pull cords in that?  How long for the showerlight and fan? 

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Hi Noz

Thanks,  would you also include the pull cords in that?  How long for the showerlight and fan? 

Stop and think of the actual process you have to go through to even just change a cord put switch..

Tools from van to room

Back to van for steps/dust sheets or other bits you forgot the carry with you first time

Find CU isolate power

Remove old fitting

Maybe make secure better fixing positions as old one naff

Remove new item from packet open up fix and connect wires

Carry out any relevant electrical tests.. (Earth con polarity bare minimum!!!!)

Pack stuff back up..

p.s. during this process its up and down steps a few times

even on a straight forward job its got to be 15 - 20 mins...

Then start multiplying times for new accessory positions..

As NOZ said..

lining up so they dong look all like a spiders measure them.

Plus multipliers for loft access etc..

I have a gut feeling some of your estimating of realistic times to do work are a tad on the short side!

Speed up connections?

I assume you are using Wago's?

opcorn   

 

[ProDave]

Top tip #1: avoid downlighters. they are the most energy inefficient lighting known to man. Never fit them to your own house, only fit them begrudgingly if the customer insists.

Top tip #2: Avoid 12V downlighters.  If you must fit downlighters, fit GU10 mains voltage lights.  Adding several transformers to run 12V lights just adds work, adds complexity, adds cost and adds unreliability.  Either the transformers will fail, or the piddly little light connectors used on 12V downlights will fail.  Far better to use mains voltage where you don't have the cost or unreliability of the transformers, and you have much more substantial and much more reliable light connectors.

About the only reason for using 12V is the shower fan lights and that's only because I have not yet found a mains version of them (no technical reason why someone could not make a mains version but I have yet to find one)

 

[1strangefish]

Thanks PD, Have wagos but yet to use.  What enclosure do you use? 

Ditching the 12V's and Trannys as I type!

 

[ProDave]

Providing it's "loop at switch" so that's taken care of, and therefore you only have a switched mains to loop to each downlight, then I just use the terminals supplied by the light manufacturer.

Though I am the first to tell you most of those are complete carp, and most are completely incapable of accepting two 1.5mm cables. Which is why I almost always only use 1mm for lighting, and one reason I hate downlighters. They can take an age to terminate and I sometimes do wonder if it would be better using an external junction box so you only have to persuade one cable into each light fitting.

 

[IzzyS]

Try the Ashley Hager J501, or Wago downlighter box, or the Line boxes.  You'll never use choc boxes again...

 

[kerching]

Providing it's "loop at switch" so that's taken care of, and therefore you only have a switched mains to loop to each downlight, then I just use the terminals supplied by the light manufacturer.

Though I am the first to tell you most of those are complete carp, and most are completely incapable of accepting two 1.5mm cables. Which is why I almost always only use 1mm for lighting, and one reason I hate downlighters. They can take an age to terminate and I sometimes do wonder if it would be better using an external junction box so you only have to persuade one cable into each light fitting.

I've just fitted loads of the Scolmore downlighters fitted with the click connectors.  maybe a bit dearer but FFS what a doddle to fit.   Holes drilled, cables pulled through, Click connector fitted, all tests done, fittings plugged in and pushed back into hole job done.

 

[ProDave]

I've just fitted loads of the Scolmore downlighters fitted with the click connectors.  maybe a bit dearer but FFS what a doddle to fit.   Holes drilled, cables pulled through, Click connector fitted, all tests done, fittings plugged in and pushed back into hole job done.

Thanks, that's exactly what I want to hear.  I'll try some next time.

I've always liked the Scolmore stuff, particularly their switches with the interchangeable inserts.

 

[1strangefish]

Cheers Guys

As always some really useful stuff.  TBH I could do with spending a few months with one of you guys but time logistics and pay will not allow.  So will keep chasing the redundancy cheque . . . . . . . .

Ejoy the festive!

Fish

 

[kerching]

Thanks, that's exactly what I want to hear.  I'll try some next time.

I've always liked the Scolmore stuff, particularly their switches with the interchangeable inserts.

Same job....builder cooked up an the ceiling void in basement had to have 75mm kingspan in it innit.  No space for conventional downlights...low ceiling height.  Scolmore to a Flu fiiting about 50mm deep complete with click flow connector  AND it is rated for insulation touching the complete fitting body...Well impressed.

They have just started doing a LED fitting with a adjustable click connector as well

 

[Andy™]

i mostly pre-wire downlights before the job.

i do about 2 jobs per week of downlight in bathrooms. the ceiling is usually lowered, but the wiring is still the same prettu much.

they are already pre-wired for 3/4/5/6 downlights

basically, 3/4/5/6 lengths of flex to one crimped joint (covered with heatshrink) with another shorter cable to go to loop connections.

so when i get to job, get appropriate wire from van, fit downlight connections to each end, then connect to where existing light was. connections are either left next to one of the lights, or pushed into the loft

probably takes about 30 mins to install them once i get to the job

 

[sellers]

i mostly pre-wire downlights before the job.

i do about 2 jobs per week of downlight in bathrooms. the ceiling is usually lowered, but the wiring is still the same prettu much.

they are already pre-wired for 3/4/5/6 downlights

basically, 3/4/5/6 lengths of flex to one crimped joint (covered with heatshrink) with another shorter cable to go to loop connections.

so when i get to job, get appropriate wire from van, fit downlight connections to each end, then connect to where existing light was. connections are either left next to one of the lights, or pushed into the loft

probably takes about 30 mins to install them once i get to the job

Exactly the same,  only time I don't do that is if there is a first fix and second fix stage to the job.

 

[M107]

If I have more than a couple of DL's to do I use the click connectors & pre wire the fittings the night before............... Knocks a shed load of time off the job.

 

[Sharpend]

But then you spend the time doing the work off the job? Now the customer expects a lower bill as they don't see the real time it takes to do the job start to finish?

 

[Andy™]

dont really have that problem with most of mine - the customer often isnt in so doesnt know how long ive been there. just leave the invoice with bathroom fitter. either way, price is already agreed before i get to the job

 

[PeatBog]

I aways use Clickflow connectors whether I fit 12V or 240V down lights. It makes it easy to do R1 + R2 Tests and Zs as I haved made up some clickflow leads for my Megger 1552. I try to avoid 240V GU10 as the lamps are so energy inefficient and only last a few weeks!!! Most of the work can be done on the bench/or ground and then Click into place. Every time I speak to the Scolmore people at ELEX they promise me that they are working on a push fit version of the Clickflow but I won't hold my breath!

 

[batty]

I personally am not a fan of the JCC LED7 with push fit connectors. They are not to bad with 1mm but 1.5 is hard to get the cables in. Personally I like a downlight with good 15 amp connectors and a good length of plastic before the clamp.

 

[ProDave]

I personally am not a fan of the JCC LED7 with push fit connectors. They are not to bad with 1mm but 1.5 is hard to get the cables in. Personally I like a downlight with good 15 amp connectors and a good length of plastic before the clamp.

And when you find such an animal, be sure to let the rest of us know.

5A connectors, and about 5mm space before the clamp seems more normal.