EICR/PIR for 2up 2 down Is price excessive given extent and "limitations"

[champagnecharly]

Just wondering what cost one should have expect for an EICR or PIR in 2021.
Looking through maintenance history I noted PIR for a 2 up 2 down in the SE at £613.

Along with the inspection the following works were carried out:
Doubled up circuit breaker c2 fitted 1 mcb
wrong smoke detectors (x3) changed on test
CO detector (x1) fitted on test
Open continuity on ring: fault found and rectified.

The extent and limitations were as follows:
only 25% of installation was tested. guidance 3.8.2 note 3
No lifting floorboards ( i get that)
no inspection in loft
Or cables within fabric of building
Insulation resistance test carried out by testing live and neutral due to "vulnerable loads"
Heating controls not tested.
Only accessible points tested.

Bearing in mind the works done and that only 25% of installation was tested. IS £613 reasonable money? Or for that kind of $ would you expect something more thorough e.g. loft space etc. Note the extent and limitations are the same no matter if the property is void or occupied however i believe at the time it was ocupied.

 

[kerching]

Depends on location
Doubled up circuit breaker? Quite possibly bollocks
Wrong smokes....nothing to do with EICR unless you asked them to check them
CO!detector as above

 

[champagnecharly]

Depends on location
Doubled up circuit breaker? Quite possibly bollocks
Wrong smokes....nothing to do with EICR unless you asked them to check them
CO!detector as above

Location is SE. Updated original post to included it thanks.

What I'm trying to gauge is; At that price, do they need to include so many limitations and exclutions regardless as to wether it is occupied. or ar they just trying to pack as many in as poss and sacrificing the integrity of the certificate.

 

[Fleeting]

They are generic Limitations for an EICR.

 

[binky]

That's the price for report and follow up works, so not what you pay for just the report. Doesn't sound that high for what was done, and the 25% probably refers to the number of accessories opened for inspection and not circuits.

 

[Murdoch]

If you asked for an EICR you did not authorise any improvements imho

Where in SE

 

[champagnecharly]

That's the price for report and follow up works, so not what you pay for just the report. Doesn't sound that high for what was done, and the 25% probably refers to the number of accessories opened for inspection and not circuits.

Yes the 25% is definitely not circuits. I didn't realise it was opening them up. I thought it was just socket testing.
So at that money you agree it would be reasonable not to check the loft & heating controls? And not doing them would not compromise the integrity unnecessarily.

They are generic Limitations for an EICR.

I understand they are generic. Its wether its reasonable to have all of them by default.

If you asked for an EICR you did not authorise any improvements imho

I'm just the tenant and it was before my time. I just wondered if all of the limitations were reasonable or if they compromised the standards of the cert for the sakes of saving time. Especially the 25%, the "No Loft" and the "vulnerable loads".

 

[Murdoch]

If you are the tenant it’s irrelevant

 

[champagnecharly]

If you are the tenant it’s irrelevant

Given there are issues with the EICRS especially in the loft space. I would strongly disagree. I'd also say that is an unusually unhelpful response for you.
The question is about reducing scope of the survey in order to save pennies.

 

[Murdoch]

Given there are issues with the EICRS especially in the loft space. I would strongly disagree. I'd also say that is an unusually unhelpful response for you.
The question is about reducing scope of the survey in order to save pennies.

You are the tenant. It’s none of your business . End of

Unless you are not the tenant but just claiming to be

 

[champagnecharly]

You are the tenant. It’s none of your business . End of

Unless you are not the tenant but just claiming to be

Murdoch, do me a favour. Be helpful or do one. Thanks!

Don't know what the "Unless you are not the tenant but just claiming to be" Is this the effect of a sunny day without wearing a hat?

 

[Murdoch]

Murdoch, do me a favour. Be helpful or do one. Thanks!

Don't know what the "Unless you are not the tenant but just claiming to be" Is this the effect of a sunny day without wearing a hat?

As a tenant what business is it of yours how much anything costs?

It doesn’t so what is your motivation?

 

[champagnecharly]

As a tenant what business is it of yours how much anything costs?

It doesn’t so what is your motivation?

Is this the norm or are corners being cut?
These certs are to save lives. Can you put a price on the life of a loved one?
Anyway as said, your input is usually incredibly helpful today it is not. You know the answer to this question but chose not divulge.. that's fine.. but I'm sure you've got better things to do..

 

[binky]

Is this the norm or are corners being cut?
These certs are to save lives. Can you put a price on the life of a loved one?
Anyway as said, your input is usually incredibly helpful today it is not. You know the answer to this question but chose not divulge.. that's fine.. but I'm sure you've got better things to do..

No he's actually right, but not putting it over very well, any cert is an issue between landlord and contractor. By the sounds of it from what you have said, an eicr was done and faults rectified. All inspections have clauses like not looking under floorboards or in the attic. These are for practical reasons, like lofts can be difficult to access safely, and we don't go around lifting carpets and flooring to check cables. The testing we do should reveal any safety issues with the circuits without doing that.

So question is, do you have concerns about the electrical system of your rented property?

 

[Murdoch]

The issues begin with contractors offering prices that are far too low to give a sensible inspection off a property.

The better question to answer would be how long should an inspector take to do an EICR- and to determine that you need to know the number of consumer units, the number of circuits and the rough number of outlets.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

The extent and limitations were as follows:
only 25% of installation was tested. guidance 3.8.2 note 3

An Electrical Installation Condition Report, (EICR), is the document issued following a periodic inspection and test of an existing installation.

"Inspection" and "Testing" are two distinct different activities undertaken to establish if an electrical installation is satisfactory for continued use.

BS7671 wiring regulations and Guidance note 3 are two industry recognised documents offering suggestions of good practice for undertaking inspection and testing.

There is no hard-and-fast rule of exactly what must be done. But the expertise of the person undertaking the work, in discussion with the person ordering, (and paying for), the work will determine the extent and limitations of the inspection and testing required.

A 100% comprehensive inspection and test of every part of an individual installation is not practical, nor is it economical viable. Also taking into account that whilst opening up accessories to carry out inspection and test you may introduce faults that were not present before you opened that accessory!!

I am guessing this 25% figure may relate to the quantity of accessories opened up to fully inspect & test... Remembering that standard guidance recommends to first take a 10% sample.. and only increase the sample size if any anomalies are identified..

So I suspect that 100% of the installation was "Visually" inspected...
But as-per standard practice 100% of every electrical joint/connection/accessory were NOT opened up.

Re the cost... from the original post it looks like this was actually an Inspection and Test.. PLUS doing a few remedial works as well!!

If I were doing the work, I may have been a tad cheaper.. {In the Midlands}
But I don't know what travel-time or distances were involved...
Or how well labelled the consumer unit was...?
Or what previous inspection reports or other electrical certificates were available..?
etc..
etc..

But on the other hand.... The price may be a good deal!!!??

Full days labour...
Plus a few materials to replace...
Plus a some time for admin, report compiling.. etc...?
Plus Professional Indemnity Insurance..
Plus meter calibration costs...
etc..

How much were you thinking it should cost????

 

[Old Dog]

Dont understand how price can be discussed on a technical site. Who is to say what one electricians costs and overheads are against another. Who knows what make of parts were fitted and the discussions with the landlord at the time. How long did it take to find the fault and then fix. Why is the tenant picking apart a historic report he was not party to. The one thing that the NICEIC will not get involved with is costing. Too many unknowns

 

[MikeJhn]

@champagnecharly in your first post you say "Looking through the maintenance history" this would indicate to me that the Landlord that has supplied you with that information and cares about their tenants, don't knock it and make waves if you don't have too.

And to answer your question IMO, £613.00 is reasonable for what was done.

 

[champagnecharly]

Maybe my question should be. Is it normal not to include the loft in ALL EICRs regardless?

........................

So question is, do you have concerns about the electrical system of your rented property?

Thanks.. Yes. I do .
I understand many of the limitations and find the majority entirely reasonable. the loft i find unreasonable.

How much were you thinking it should cost????

Thanks.. but in answer to your question.. What do I know? If i knew i wouldn't ask. Was it in the right ball park to do a through job without unnecessary limitation?

The issues begin with contractors offering prices that are far too low to give a sensible inspection off a property.

Does 613 sound unreasonably low not to give a "sensible" inspection?

Dont understand how price can be discussed on a technical site. Who is to say what one electricians costs and overheads are against another. Who knows what make of parts were fitted and the discussions with the landlord at the time. How long did it take to find the fault and then fix. Why is the tenant picking apart a historic report he was not party to. The one thing that the NICEIC will not get involved with is costing. Too many unknowns

Appreciated. This is not so much about the actual price but whether that price was in the right ball park or whether they had been squeezed so much it was necessary to add unnecessary limitations.

@champagnecharly in your first post you say "Looking through the maintenance history" this would indicate to me that the Landlord that has supplied you with that information and cares about their tenants, don't knock it and make waves if you don't have too.

Not all is what it seems..
Data requested as DSAR and more than was requested appeared on screenshot. DSAR wasn't fulfilled and has been passed to ICO .
Front wall 80% moisture levels.
3rd part electrician report expressed concerns in relation to EICR PIR stating significantly below expected professional standards... NICEIC tech confirm certain works did not comply with regs...
Some within the team are fantastic other, generally with more authority. don't appear to give two hoots.

And to answer your question IMO, £613.00 is reasonable for what was done.

Sound pretty unanimous. So the electrician wasn't squeezed on price.

 

[Sharpend]

In answer to the last question, yes this is normal.

I think you are expecting more bang for bucks? Without being party to the agreement at the time how would you or I know what was agreed and whether the price included a few small remedial that don’t fall upon the EICR?