GN3 - 18th Ed

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so does this mean that you gain extra work from a job through your different interpretation of what is written albeit you are changing the interpretation to a new meaning? 
Not at all as previously stated our Code interpretation is the same as BS7671 and it is rare to be asked to rectify Code 3 issues although it does happen. We Code 3 plastic consumer units stating it does not require rectification although we rarely touch the domestic market.

 
Not at all as previously stated our Code interpretation is the same as BS7671 and it is rare to be asked to rectify Code 3 issues although it does happen. We Code 3 plastic consumer units stating it does not require rectification although we rarely touch the domestic market.


My issue is the large number of sparks using C2 instead of C3 .............

 
My issue is the large number of sparks using C2 instead of C3 .............
Thats the way of it at the moment too many people with no competence or experience with some sort of testing qualification and using Guide books to compensate for their lack of understanding. Back in the early 90s when I got heavily involved with testing testers were pretty light on the ground people just avoided it but now it's a free for all aided in part by the YouTube monkeys.

 
Thats the way of it at the moment too many people with no competence or experience with some sort of testing qualification and using Guide books to compensate for their lack of understanding. Back in the early 90s when I got heavily involved with testing testers were pretty light on the ground people just avoided it but now it's a free for all aided in part by the YouTube monkeys.


THis is very true. Out of interest how would you like the C3 wording changed? 

 
Thats the way of it at the moment too many people with no competence or experience with some sort of testing qualification and using Guide books to compensate for their lack of understanding. Back in the early 90s when I got heavily involved with testing testers were pretty light on the ground people just avoided it but now it's a free for all aided in part by the YouTube monkeys.


Well - as for guidebooks - my views on Codebreakers are well known - version 2 is slightly better than version 1 but far too many people use it verbatim

Never looked at Youtube for guides

The only guide that is constructive is the Electrical Safety Council Best Practice Guide No 4, issue 5 - which was generated by nearly all the electrical bodies - and as its free to anybody its pretty much the only document in the public domain that Joe Public can read and understand.

As for EICR's - I've just been asked to review one for a Landlord - the spark has given ALL the downlights a C2 but no reg number - so we are guessing what the problems are!!

 
THis is very true. Out of interest how would you like the C3 wording changed? 
That's a good question as I feel the current definition is a bit non-committal. There are many things you can plonk into Code 3 as they are not going to cause an imminent danger and probably never will. I have just finished a Report with several C3s one being the main protective bond to the water service is cable-tied to the pipework. To me this is a departure from the Regulations so it shouldn't be a recommendation you should be required to rectify it and I could cite many others. I preferred the old Catergory system and to me Code 1 and 2 are too akin to each other, there is little difference. 

Well - as for guidebooks - my views on Codebreakers are well known - version 2 is slightly better than version 1 but far too many people use it verbatim

Never looked at Youtube for guides

The only guide that is constructive is the Electrical Safety Council Best Practice Guide No 4, issue 5 - which was generated by nearly all the electrical bodies - and as its free to anybody its pretty much the only document in the public domain that Joe Public can read and understand.

As for EICR's - I've just been asked to review one for a Landlord - the spark has given ALL the downlights a C2 but no reg number - so we are guessing what the problems are!!
There is no Requirement to state a Regulation number as it means nothing to the client generally but the departure should have an accurate definition in the Report.

 
That's a good question as I feel the current definition is a bit non-committal. There are many things you can plonk into Code 3 as they are not going to cause an imminent danger and probably never will. I have just finished a Report with several C3s one being the main protective bond to the water service is cable-tied to the pipework. To me this is a departure from the Regulations so it shouldn't be a recommendation you should be required to rectify it and I could cite many others. I preferred the old Catergory system and to me Code 1 and 2 are too akin to each other, there is little difference. 


 There's so many things that are probably best described as 'poor practice', such as lack of sleeving / mixed wring colours label missing etc etc, non of which really affects the safety of the system, which is why C3 is non-commital. I think I would refer to see C3 replaced with just 'observation' . Giving a code suggests 'danger' to me, and these things aren't really dangerous? 

 
 There's so many things that are probably best described as 'poor practice', such as lack of sleeving / mixed wring colours label missing etc etc, non of which really affects the safety of the system, which is why C3 is non-commital. I think I would refer to see C3 replaced with just 'observation' . Giving a code suggests 'danger' to me, and these things aren't really dangerous? 
No I agree some things are never going to cause a danger but unfortunately we don't have crystal balls.

 
The IET knows the discrepancy between BS7671 & GN3; I don't know why it has not been corrected.

It's not a massive issue because GN3 is only guidance, and the wording in BS 7671 is contained within Appendix 6, which is Informative and is just that for information only.

It does NOT form part of the wording of the requirements of BS 7671 as a Normative appendix would. 

 
 We Code 3 plastic consumer units stating it does not require rectification although we rarely touch the domestic market.


so its C3 and 'does not require rectification' yet earlier you said

I always thought recommended was an error, far better to say required.


so goiong by that, your C3 on a plastic consumer unit does not require rectification but its improvement required. which is it?

 
Our report format states "recommend" not "required" my feeling over the wording was a personal opinion. 

 
tbh, i dont care about your personal opinion. your coding against / working to BS7671, not what you want
I Code with reference to the Regulations in BS7671 using an engineering judgement, as for the Report format I can device any format I wish but having said that our format is close to the suggested one in the Appendix.

 
I Code with reference to the Regulations in BS7671 using an engineering judgement, as for the Report format I can device any format I wish but having said that our format is close to the suggested one in the Appendix.


I know one or two people who have devised their own forms in Excel, based on the Appendix sample. It's dangerous to deviate from recognised wordings though, just from a legal perspective. 

 
I know one or two people who have devised their own forms in Excel, based on the Appendix sample. It's dangerous to deviate from recognised wordings though, just from a legal perspective. 
Only if you devalue from what is in the Appendix.

 
C3 isn't there to make people have unnecessary work done. 

C3 = satisfactory.

As every day passes I'm so embarrassed to be part of this almighty fiasco.

Just imagine if MOT stations started making up the rules to suit themselves!

 
C3 isn't there to make people have unnecessary work done. 

C3 = satisfactory.

As every day passes I'm so embarrassed to be part of this almighty fiasco.

Just imagine if MOT stations started making up the rules to suit themselves!
Bit dramatic isn't it. If you are referring to me then I have never suggested I have changed the C3 definition nor implied people should have unnecessary works carried out.

 

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