Is Part Pee a laugh?

[green-hornet]

I received a call by recommendation, the brief was to supply some extra sockets and two way switching to a house that the clients had just bought.

The house was sold with a new kitchen and new bathroom installed, so to all looked like a real bargain.

On arrival I noticed the new bathroom and freshly installed kitchen, I asked the client if they had the Electrical Installation certificates, they had none, I asked if they had been given or asked for an electrical safety report, they had not.

Anyway my usual method of working is to approach all prospective jobs as if I was doing an assessment, so main bonding was checked 6mm to gas meter, connection to water unverified and not accessable.

Fuse board next and this was fully boxed in by the new kitchen, almost impossible to work on and the main cut out totally un accessable without removal of kitchen units.

Without being able to check the supply for earthing characteristics I ventured outside to check the in comming supply, and took a few pics from my phone.





Thats what looks like 16mm twin and earth and the single cable serves 3 houses, from the main supply, going the other way from the main supply two cables serve most of the rest of the street.



Thats the fuse board and meter, so you can see the problem I have.

There is recent work to the kitchen and bathroom both works carried out in the last 6 months and its still on a rewirable fuse board which is as I have said almost impossible to work on.

I now have a problem, how the hell am I to install extra sockets and install two way switching to the stairs with no RCD protection and bonding that is to a previous edition.

Another question is why should we upgrade and update any installation when the supply companies never do?

The clients are short of cash but want the job done right, I felt like a conman when I explained how wrong everything was.

Any help or advise from you guys would help.

Me personally I would file for prosecution of the previous owners and get this Part P fiasco sorted out once and for all, or everyone refuse to be a part of it.

 

[NozSpark]

Just because they have had a new kitchen and bathroom doesn't mean that they have had any electrical work done that requires a certificate...

but... that cabinet is just taking the P

Remember all your work should comply with the current regs and whilst DPC amd1 would give you a get out for the RCD's (but not at this time) bonding should still be in place.

Could you use flexishield to get around the RCD issue??

 

[green-hornet]

Its a new shower and the wiring for the kitchen is new, they even installed an IP65 bulk head light fitting in the bathroom

 

[NozSpark]

Ah.. that's a different matter then.

When the previous owner sold the property they signed a legal declaration that would include if they had any notifyable electrical work carried out.

Sounds like they said they hadn't

 

[Megaohm7]

First and foremost, don't feel like a conman because advising customers on a professional basis is not a con . I appreciate that money is tight for them but for you to do the jobs they require the circuits concerned will need to be isolated and if that's difficult for You to do then It's going to be difficult for them too . Things should be accessible for this purpose . As You've assessed the situation How easy is it for You to bring things up to standard just as the customers have requested. It's Your time and living as well

 

[Lee321]

despair

 

[green-hornet]

What really gets my goat is we are left to look like idiots, I know what will happen now, the builder who is doing some "alterations" will now say forget about the electrician we can sort it out for you and no questions asked.

Why put a IP 65 light fitting in a new bathroom, when the shower and light is not protected by RCD, and why should they get away with it, how many prospective house buyers are buying a dream home which is totally bodged up by bogus DIY electrical work.

The killer here is the fact that unless you can prove that the installation is dangerous there will be no prosecution, that is just not right, and why our trade is so abused by Mr fixit house maintenance guys.

Sorry I am so passionate about the faults of Part P and the abuse it incurs, whilst we are left to pick up the pieces.

 

[mikep]

It's never nice telling someone that their nice new bathroom/ kitchen is a pile of poop and life threatening.

 

[Apache]

GH - the work is shocking. Not sure I get the title of the thread tho?

 

[green-hornet]

First and foremost, don't feel like a conman because advising customers on a professional basis is not a con . I appreciate that money is tight for them but for you to do the jobs they require the circuits concerned will need to be isolated and if that's difficult for You to do then It's going to be difficult for them too . Things should be accessible for this purpose . As You've assessed the situation How easy is it for You to bring things up to standard just as the customers have requested. It's Your time and living as well

I am trying to find the cheapest option for them.

My first thoughts was to put an adaptable box where the fuse board is now and extend the circuits along the top of the kitchen units to a new CU which will be accessable. The circuits can then be extended and everything will be fully brought up to date. However the supply really bugs me, its so outdated and certainly not up to any standards that we would have to install to, whats the point? The end house on this terrace has just undergone major refurbishment and now has a seperate supply from the front of the properties which makes me think did they pay for this or was it requested from a legit electrician? I honestly do not know.

 

[kme]

Right.

In your position, I would do (and have done) 3 things:

1. Inform LABC of the issues - in writing. Either send "signed for"; or hand deliver ( & signed for).

2. Quote customer for required works to bring works to minimum standard for your works to be done. Ensure you explain the situation with regard to certification, bonding (NIC do some nice explanatory leaflets on why you need earthing & bonding - and they`re free on request ).

3. Issue a danger notice if required. If you do, ensure a copy goes to LABC and customer; keeping a copy for yourself of course.

It may be worth speaking to your area engineer - they aren`t just there to inspect your work once a year - he`ll probably be able to give more direct guidance.

HTH

KME

 

[Badger]

that supply outside does look really dodgy. and if i was you id be getting the local dno out to sort the supply out

 

[green-hornet]

GH - the work is shocking. Not sure I get the title of the thread tho?

You know me, I am always so melodramatic on this forum!

I was intending on starting a protest against Part P, I think the government at local and national levels along with insurance companies and building control should fully enforce part p or just scrap it.

 

[Manator]

We can all see your frustrated about this issue but you can only advise in your professional capacity and leave all the decision making to the client. I very much like the suggestions that KME has raised in his reply to your post.

 

[Apache]

2. Quote customer for required works to bring works to minimum standard for your works to be done. Ensure you explain the situation with regard to certification, bonding (NIC do some nice explanatory leaflets on why you need earthing & bonding - and they`re free on request ).

This beastie?

http://www.esc.org.uk/pdfs/safety-in-the-home/Earthing-bonding-ESC.pdf

 

[green-hornet]

Right.In your position, I would do (and have done) 3 things:

1. Inform LABC of the issues - in writing. Either send "signed for"; or hand deliver ( & signed for).

2. Quote customer for required works to bring works to minimum standard for your works to be done. Ensure you explain the situation with regard to certification, bonding (NIC do some nice explanatory leaflets on why you need earthing & bonding - and they`re free on request ).

3. Issue a danger notice if required. If you do, ensure a copy goes to LABC and customer; keeping a copy for yourself of course.

It may be worth speaking to your area engineer - they aren`t just there to inspect your work once a year - he`ll probably be able to give more direct guidance.

HTH

KME

I think your right mate, and I will make some calls on monday.

The area engineer lives about 1/2 a mile from me so I will give him a call just to see what he says, he will probably say the same as you have said.

I think the thread title is abit ott sorry apache

Thanks for all your indulgence.

Yes manator I think the main thing is for me to stop getting so passionate

I just hate it when some people think they are buying their dream home to find its all cosmetic.

Thanks again gents some very good advise given as always.

 

[green-hornet]

I have changed the title, just incase anyone gets over excited at some news that is not real

 

[Apache]

I have changed the title, just incase anyone gets over excited at some news that is not real

Only of one post!

 

[green-hornet]

I think this time its for all apart from the replies already listed

 

[androiduk2002]

Mr GH,

Do not feel bad for feeling passionate about what you know, it will keep you strong. It is a sad state of affairs and it would appear unforunatly to rest of your shoulders that you tell your customer the truth about their installation.

If you did not I am sure you like a lot of the other knowledgable on this forum would not sleep properly at night if you didnt that is what sets you and others on a higher level.

Be honest tell them the truth, maybe they could afford to have the work done over a period of a few months to make the installation safe and get the extra works carried out.

You are the knowledge that they seek.