springcrocus
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2008
- Messages
- 588
- Reaction score
- 0
What I typed in inverted commas is how you replied to one of my posts a month or so back.
Last edited by a moderator:
Is Something Is Going Wrong Here...?
- Thread starter springcrocus
- Start date
Help Support Talk Electrician Forum:
it's a busy time of year so people ae getting on with work, and I'm sure new format has scared a few people off, but if we are getting less inane questions , all the better. Get fed up with same drivel over and over again, my RCD trips out when MCB is off - neutral fault, why does it hurt when I stick fingers in back of socket - cos you didn't safe isolate :yawn
quality is more important than quantity.
quality is more important than quantity.
thats why I dont really do forums any more,
yes, there are always loads of threads to catch up on,
mostly drivel or
how do I wire up a 13a plug,
Im a spark, how do I test for continuity on this CU I have just changed,
can you tell me how to steal jobs off you now I have a bit of paper but not a clue how to do anything
Ive passed all my 'part P' exams and now Im fully qualified I cant get a job so Im going SE, can I use one of your jobs for my scam assessment
why have I got 4 browns/reds at my ceiling rose, Im fully qualified but never seen anything this stupid before
why have I only got 1 brown at my ceiling rose, Im fully qualified but never seen anything this stupid before
do I have to do a cert for a CU change, Im fully qualified, but Im not changing any circuits
PME and TNC-S are the same
Ive changed a CU but the RCD keeps tripping
Ive changed a CU but the main bonds are undersize, do I have to upgrade them
Ive changed a CU do I have to install main bonds if they arent already there
do I have to bond the water if its too much hassle
personally,
I dont mind the genuine advice seekers, in fact I'd welcome more with open arms,
as for the folks that are tantamount to, 'awaiting manslaughter charges' brigade, them I can well live without.
and the folks that think a bit of paper makes them 'fully qualified' :slap qualified for what exactly?
as has been said, I can go for quality over quantity anytime,
but dont tell the wife I said that, I keep telling her its all in the amount, not how good it is,
springcrocus
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2008
- Messages
- 588
- Reaction score
- 0
A thoroughly enjoyable read, Steps, and one of the longest posts I can remember you making for a long time. Well done. :Applaud :Salute
And I agree with pretty well all that you are saying.
And I agree with pretty well all that you are saying.
He,s had a few drinks , 'Crocus ..........come tomorrow it'll be back to answering ...bang a rod in for everything .
springcrocus
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2008
- Messages
- 588
- Reaction score
- 0
Have a look at my latest topic, Deke. I will need a couple of rods at least when Steps sees it.He,s had a few drinks , 'Crocus ..........come tomorrow it'll be back to answering ...bang a rod in for everything .
I`m sure, in previous years, there is a lull around this time....for various reasons.
At the moment, I`m not posting as much as I`d like to be able to, simply due to lack of time. Can`t complain, it means I`m busy - but enough members with "other things to do", and the forum will appear quieter.
I must agree with many of the posts in this thread. I`d much rather have half-a-dozen good threads, then waste what little time I currently get wading through 50 threads a night; 90% of which are inane or serve no useful purpose.
I would just add that, if any of you feel that something is detracting from the forum; or indeed ought to be there but isn`t - suggest it. I`m not guaranteeing it will happen, but it is good to know what members think.
At the moment, I`m not posting as much as I`d like to be able to, simply due to lack of time. Can`t complain, it means I`m busy - but enough members with "other things to do", and the forum will appear quieter.
I must agree with many of the posts in this thread. I`d much rather have half-a-dozen good threads, then waste what little time I currently get wading through 50 threads a night; 90% of which are inane or serve no useful purpose.
I would just add that, if any of you feel that something is detracting from the forum; or indeed ought to be there but isn`t - suggest it. I`m not guaranteeing it will happen, but it is good to know what members think.
Last edited by a moderator:
philbas
Well-known member
One thing that is detracting for me, is I can't work out how to ignore a thread.
My normal process is to log on, and hit view new content, now half the time the first screen then gets filled with the new members page.
This is good, new members are good, but to be honest once I say "Hello and welcome to the forum" I don't want to see 20 new messages saying "Hello and welcome to the forum"
So how do I ignore a thread?
My normal process is to log on, and hit view new content, now half the time the first screen then gets filled with the new members page.
This is good, new members are good, but to be honest once I say "Hello and welcome to the forum" I don't want to see 20 new messages saying "Hello and welcome to the forum"
So how do I ignore a thread?
click new content again,
it brings up current threads then,
took me a while to get that going.
it brings up current threads then,
took me a while to get that going.
philbas
Well-known member
But my then someone else has said "Hello to the form"
oh, dunno how to stop that then, there is a thing on the LHS for how long back you want 'new posts' to go.
With respect, from what Ive seen so far since the changeover, whenever someone has suggested something to do with the new forum, they have been pretty much shot down and told 'thats the way it is, like it or lump it' or words to that effect.
Now i love this place ( as I have said before) but i must say i am harbouring some reservations that it is in danger of disappearing up its own arse, as I have seen on a few forums before. I would hate that to happen.
IMHO, there is a danger of a 'Us and them' attitude developing, which would spell the death knell. Without users, the forum will shrivel and die. The new owners are/were forumites before they became management so must know the score?
Having read back thru that, it has come out harsher than i intended but the gist is there so Im not gonna edit it.
I think you have to keep the forum board version up to date to cater for the explosion in mobile device usage, integration with social networking, the advent of IPv6 and Web 2.0 etc. From a technology point of view it's unavoidable although it can be unsettling for those who generally don't like change but I don't think it's fair if you hold the updated forum against the board owners or the Admin who've always seemed to respond quickly to support people having technical problems.
As for the hostility towards newbies, '7 week wonders' and people asking DIY questions; I suspect the forums just reflect the elitism that's a part of the UK electrical industry and I would guess has been made worse by the introduction of the fast track courses and the fact there's a recession.
The board might be a more welcoming place to outsiders or new members if the established members just walked away from the threads that are going to irritate them rather than posting in an nonconstructive fashion. I know it's easier said than done and I'm also guilty on occasions because it's all too easy to join in with snide comments but it does escalate quickly to the point of alienating the OP.
I realise also it's a thin line between conveying a genuine concern that someone might cause a hazard or even injure themselves and becoming patronising or elitist but I think the number of times you see a thread opened with the phrase 'please go easy on me' or something similar should be a concern. The board has a sub-forum for DIY electrics and a student learning zone which is an open invitation for DIY'ers and students/apprentices/'5 week wonders' to post so you've got to expect basic questions for people who aren't electrically competent and they should have a reasonable expectation to be able to post without getting numerous replies telling them they're incompetent or the thread descending into ridicule.
Just my 2 cents.
As for the hostility towards newbies, '7 week wonders' and people asking DIY questions; I suspect the forums just reflect the elitism that's a part of the UK electrical industry and I would guess has been made worse by the introduction of the fast track courses and the fact there's a recession.
The board might be a more welcoming place to outsiders or new members if the established members just walked away from the threads that are going to irritate them rather than posting in an nonconstructive fashion. I know it's easier said than done and I'm also guilty on occasions because it's all too easy to join in with snide comments but it does escalate quickly to the point of alienating the OP.
I realise also it's a thin line between conveying a genuine concern that someone might cause a hazard or even injure themselves and becoming patronising or elitist but I think the number of times you see a thread opened with the phrase 'please go easy on me' or something similar should be a concern. The board has a sub-forum for DIY electrics and a student learning zone which is an open invitation for DIY'ers and students/apprentices/'5 week wonders' to post so you've got to expect basic questions for people who aren't electrically competent and they should have a reasonable expectation to be able to post without getting numerous replies telling them they're incompetent or the thread descending into ridicule.
Just my 2 cents.
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2011
- Messages
- 5,456
- Reaction score
- 69
Is there something wrong? Somewhat from the hip, but I've drafted it, changed it and come up with this:
There are numerous reasons why this may be felt. It is to some degree seasonal with the added pressure of Christmas on top of the economic climate and money worries etc. It’s sometimes difficult to see the good against the perceived bad of something. It’s easy to get all maudlin when you’re stuck inside in front of the pc, the weather is rotten outside and maybe you’ve had one too many idiot question. There is probably less electrical work about for some “professionals” and a corresponding knock on of Joe Householder attempting to do the work himself to save money. Let’s face it, it wasn’t that long ago that Readers Digest, Collins et al, had DIY manuals with “complete” electrical sections. Lights, you need a 6A breaker and 1.5mm cable, ring 32A and 2.5mm. No mention of cable calcs, insulation etc, etc. These books are still sitting on peoples shelves.
Let’s remember that until a short time ago, Googling “talk electrician” would bring up a rider saying something on the lines of “the UK’s friendliest forum”. Put yourself in the aforementioned householder’s shoes and you will latch onto this – irrespective of the forum changes (a search no longer brings up “the friendliest bit) you will likely remember it.
As to the forum changes I appreciate the work that has gone into it under the new regime but if there are genuine issues or if it is done better elsewhere then it needs to be changed HERE. The members make any forum so need to be listened to – ignore them at your peril! As a suggestion to perhaps weed out the idiot brigade would it not be a good idea to have a site front page which you MUST scroll down and read, agree – with a SUCCESSION (not just one) of tick boxes. Use this front page to push the dangers of electricity, at least the ethos of Part P in some form and state clearly that posters are likely to be advised to call in a proper electrician if the subject is felt to be out of their depth.
Going slightly off track maybe but I personally feel that a lot seemingly basic questions posted stem from the whole attitude to electrical safety in the UK and the general public’s perception of it. Anyone can buy the equipment that the professional can. The answer is maybe to restrict sales to competent persons and to furthermore restrict the re-sale. If the powers that be are really serious then consider that electricity kills so license it like firearms. Elements of the supply industry don’t help when some tout say an MK enclosure fully loaded with RCBO’s of another make. No doubt this goes against the manufacturer’s edict and opens the install up to invalid insurance issues etc but they get away with selling these packages. Then we have Part P; where’s the “teeth” when the document itself states that different building control offices will view works differently. And of course then there are the schemes. Some insisting you have the 17th to join, others that you gain it within 12 months of joining ditto the 2391, different fee scales etc, etc. The schemes are I believe to some extent, now self-perpetuating cash cows for the firms involved. Each IS in competition with the other. I’m all for a free market and choice but has it gone too far? If there are that many variances on the “professional” side of things it only encourages work outside the law. Should there be ONE nationalised scheme perhaps? It's not the fault of the 5WW who is ALLOWED to join these schemes!
At the end of the day it can be a frustrating no win situation for the competent member here, do you advise the poster who is obviously going to go ahead anyway in the (vain) hope that the work he does doesn't kill anybody else in that he gleans something from your suggestions to make it somewhere near safe. Or do you post derogatory replies such that he does it anyway? If it's the latter then I'd suggest you restrict membership here based on qualifications as a minimum.
There are numerous reasons why this may be felt. It is to some degree seasonal with the added pressure of Christmas on top of the economic climate and money worries etc. It’s sometimes difficult to see the good against the perceived bad of something. It’s easy to get all maudlin when you’re stuck inside in front of the pc, the weather is rotten outside and maybe you’ve had one too many idiot question. There is probably less electrical work about for some “professionals” and a corresponding knock on of Joe Householder attempting to do the work himself to save money. Let’s face it, it wasn’t that long ago that Readers Digest, Collins et al, had DIY manuals with “complete” electrical sections. Lights, you need a 6A breaker and 1.5mm cable, ring 32A and 2.5mm. No mention of cable calcs, insulation etc, etc. These books are still sitting on peoples shelves.
Let’s remember that until a short time ago, Googling “talk electrician” would bring up a rider saying something on the lines of “the UK’s friendliest forum”. Put yourself in the aforementioned householder’s shoes and you will latch onto this – irrespective of the forum changes (a search no longer brings up “the friendliest bit) you will likely remember it.
As to the forum changes I appreciate the work that has gone into it under the new regime but if there are genuine issues or if it is done better elsewhere then it needs to be changed HERE. The members make any forum so need to be listened to – ignore them at your peril! As a suggestion to perhaps weed out the idiot brigade would it not be a good idea to have a site front page which you MUST scroll down and read, agree – with a SUCCESSION (not just one) of tick boxes. Use this front page to push the dangers of electricity, at least the ethos of Part P in some form and state clearly that posters are likely to be advised to call in a proper electrician if the subject is felt to be out of their depth.
Going slightly off track maybe but I personally feel that a lot seemingly basic questions posted stem from the whole attitude to electrical safety in the UK and the general public’s perception of it. Anyone can buy the equipment that the professional can. The answer is maybe to restrict sales to competent persons and to furthermore restrict the re-sale. If the powers that be are really serious then consider that electricity kills so license it like firearms. Elements of the supply industry don’t help when some tout say an MK enclosure fully loaded with RCBO’s of another make. No doubt this goes against the manufacturer’s edict and opens the install up to invalid insurance issues etc but they get away with selling these packages. Then we have Part P; where’s the “teeth” when the document itself states that different building control offices will view works differently. And of course then there are the schemes. Some insisting you have the 17th to join, others that you gain it within 12 months of joining ditto the 2391, different fee scales etc, etc. The schemes are I believe to some extent, now self-perpetuating cash cows for the firms involved. Each IS in competition with the other. I’m all for a free market and choice but has it gone too far? If there are that many variances on the “professional” side of things it only encourages work outside the law. Should there be ONE nationalised scheme perhaps? It's not the fault of the 5WW who is ALLOWED to join these schemes!
At the end of the day it can be a frustrating no win situation for the competent member here, do you advise the poster who is obviously going to go ahead anyway in the (vain) hope that the work he does doesn't kill anybody else in that he gleans something from your suggestions to make it somewhere near safe. Or do you post derogatory replies such that he does it anyway? If it's the latter then I'd suggest you restrict membership here based on qualifications as a minimum.
Last edited by a moderator:
a3
3 of 9
Thanks for that, it had been missed in the Meta data for search engines and has now been amended
There's something I'm not comfortable with when it comes to the restricting public access to electrical supplies. Although I can see the argument for it and it make logical sense, I'm really not keen on where it leads. It's the same arguements used by people who would also ban the sale of step ladders unless you have a appropriate competence certificate and a signed note by a Doctor saying you're fit to climb them. My question with this line of argument is where do you draw the line and also how do you draw the line. I see complaints all the time about the UK being a 'nanny state' and I can't help thinking this would just open that door wider. I guess I'm one of those that thinks people will just be people, there's no cure for stupidity so why try to medicate against it?
Last edited by a moderator:
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2009
- Messages
- 14,673
- Reaction score
- 828
The UK is NOT a nanny state. You need to try visiting other countries.
We have relatives in Australia. they were staggered that we could just build our own house ourselves. They HAD to attend evening classes and pass an exam to get a "self build permit"
We have relatives in Australia. they were staggered that we could just build our own house ourselves. They HAD to attend evening classes and pass an exam to get a "self build permit"
It was just a comment, I used the 'Nanny State' phrase because I knew people would relate but I guess it a relative thing. It wasn't meant to be personal.
Last edited by a moderator:
sounds quite sensible to me - biggest issue is always people who think they know from reading internet
