Issuing Of Electrical Installation Certificates
- Thread starter adammid
- Start date
Help Support Talk Electrician Forum:
as the cert is required by 7671, the work isnt complete until the cert is issued...
ok thats good in terms of payment. don't pay until received cert. However what if the work has been physically completed, contractor has left site and waiting for the cert. what amount of time do you wait until you can ask for it? I was certain it was 30 days, im just seeking clarification.
it is common for a cert to be written later off-site then handed over. and sometimes held until payment is made
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2009
- Messages
- 14,681
- Reaction score
- 832
Has he invoiced you for the work yet?
Have you actually ASKED him where the certificate is yet?
Do you intend to pay for the work or are you going to hold him to ransom?
Are there any other issues you are not telling us?
Have you actually ASKED him where the certificate is yet?
Do you intend to pay for the work or are you going to hold him to ransom?
Are there any other issues you are not telling us?
- Main contractor has issued invoice.
Have asked for certs numerous times and info keeps coming back incorrect. (info does not match that shown on as installed drawings namely device type, device rating and csa of phase and cpc)
Intend to pay
No other issues
Works completed over 6 weeks ago
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2009
- Messages
- 14,681
- Reaction score
- 832
What are these "installation drawings" you talk about?
The crucial thing is not whether the EIC data matches some drawing, but whether the EIC data matches what is actually physically installed.
Did you notice them doing some actual testing of the installation? or is this another case that the EIC is a work of fiction?
The crucial thing is not whether the EIC data matches some drawing, but whether the EIC data matches what is actually physically installed.
Did you notice them doing some actual testing of the installation? or is this another case that the EIC is a work of fiction?
PD the "as installed" drawings should exactly match the EIC, as these drawings reflect what has actually been installed at the site, and would form part of the Statutory CDM documents, thus there should be no discrepancies between the two.
The contractor must correct one or the other.
OP, there is no limit to the time in BS7671, it would be contractual.
The contractor must correct one or the other.
OP, there is no limit to the time in BS7671, it would be contractual.
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2009
- Messages
- 14,681
- Reaction score
- 832
Well it's open to debate.
I read "installation drawings" as some architects view of what's needed, and what was actually installed may differ.
I guess the crucial thing we don't know (more information is needed) is WHO issued the drawings. I agree if it was the electrical contractor then they should be correct.
Is this a new build? rewire? refurbishment or what?
It does smell of a bodge job without proper attention to detail and possibly not proper testing.
I read "installation drawings" as some architects view of what's needed, and what was actually installed may differ.
I guess the crucial thing we don't know (more information is needed) is WHO issued the drawings. I agree if it was the electrical contractor then they should be correct.
Is this a new build? rewire? refurbishment or what?
It does smell of a bodge job without proper attention to detail and possibly not proper testing.
NO PD there is a subtle but VERY important difference between "installation drawings" & "as installed" drawings.
The first is as you say by the designer, architect etc. the latter is the former modified by the contractor & inspector/tester to relate to what is "actually" fitted, and how.
This is a KEY point and very easily misunderstood.
The first is as you say by the designer, architect etc. the latter is the former modified by the contractor & inspector/tester to relate to what is "actually" fitted, and how.
This is a KEY point and very easily misunderstood.
Jono Pashley
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2008
- Messages
- 1,250
- Reaction score
- 20
Wish the places i worked had "as installed" drawings...would relieve me of the my latest fun game to play which is hunt the DB....only to find its in a little walkway 4m off the floor accessed through a little hatch in the plasterboard wall...great place for the garden centre circuits to go A* guys !
Breach under CDM then!
That is a Statute Law breach, so, HSE/LA "SHOULD" be interested as there is money to be made by them in the form of a prosecution for not meeting the statute law requirements.
That is a Statute Law breach, so, HSE/LA "SHOULD" be interested as there is money to be made by them in the form of a prosecution for not meeting the statute law requirements.
sidey, I feel PD has got this the way I look at it, very often someone will spec something that is just not 'right', Ive often got 2.5mm radials spec'd with a 20 or 25A 60898 when there is no way that VD will be OK so I pop a 16A in, yes, its a variation, but its the compliant one, to do as spec would be a deviation that no one will sign for,
end point,
the contractor cannot legally with-hold your certs before payment, until you receive your certs the job is not yet finished, so you dont have to pay.
if the certs come back showing as installed , as opposed to as installed drawings , then you have a problem between your specifier and your installer, and you should seek some sort of clarification.
end point,
the contractor cannot legally with-hold your certs before payment, until you receive your certs the job is not yet finished, so you dont have to pay.
if the certs come back showing as installed , as opposed to as installed drawings , then you have a problem between your specifier and your installer, and you should seek some sort of clarification.
Steps,
All I am saying is that the design drawing showing the say25 must be updated to show the as installed 16 in your example.
The 25 drawing would be the installation drawing, wrong, & the installed drawing showing the 16 would be right & reflect the actual state of the install and would match the cert.
All I am saying is that the design drawing showing the say25 must be updated to show the as installed 16 in your example.
The 25 drawing would be the installation drawing, wrong, & the installed drawing showing the 16 would be right & reflect the actual state of the install and would match the cert.
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2009
- Messages
- 14,681
- Reaction score
- 832
At the moment we don't know if the certificate matches what is actually installed. It might just be the drawing that's wrong.
We await the OP to give more information.
We await the OP to give more information.
The drawings were issued by the electrical contractor to show what was actually installed. They are 'AS INSTALLED' drawings NOT 'Installation drawings'.
THE EIC shows differences to the drawings. These include:
Different device type
Different rating
Differrent csa of conductors
As sidewinder says above the 'as installed' drawings should reflect exactly what has been installed and so should the EIC.
THE EIC shows differences to the drawings. These include:
Different device type
Different rating
Differrent csa of conductors
As sidewinder says above the 'as installed' drawings should reflect exactly what has been installed and so should the EIC.
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2009
- Messages
- 14,681
- Reaction score
- 832
So call the contractor back to correct the mistakes.
Have done PD, but they keep sending them back with still some mistakes on. To begin with I just said the EIC and as installed drawings don't match up, so the drawings and EIC came back and there were still some errors so I then went into more detail and said there are discrepancies in device type, rating and csa. They then came back, with yet again with errors so i have sent them back again and had to say specifically what is wrong. ie which device is wrong, which circuit shows incorrect csa etc etc
I was asking on here whether or not there is a number of days that final EIC should be issued to the client after the works have been completed.
I was asking on here whether or not there is a number of days that final EIC should be issued to the client after the works have been completed.
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2009
- Messages
- 14,681
- Reaction score
- 832
You just seem to have hit an incompetent contractor. Unfortunately like any trade, some are good, some are not.
Sounds like it's time for a snotty letter demanding someone actually comes to have a look, and re do the certificates and drawings to match what they have actually installed.
Sounds like it's time for a snotty letter demanding someone actually comes to have a look, and re do the certificates and drawings to match what they have actually installed.
OK,
so its the electrical contractor who is both supplying the drawings, and the EIC,
no, as far as I am aware there is no time limit, in fact you could agrue that the job is not complete until you receive the as installed drawings, therefore he does not have to issue an eic until the job is complete,
he just seems like an incompetent, TBH
:shakehead
so its the electrical contractor who is both supplying the drawings, and the EIC,
no, as far as I am aware there is no time limit, in fact you could agrue that the job is not complete until you receive the as installed drawings, therefore he does not have to issue an eic until the job is complete,
he just seems like an incompetent, TBH
:shakehead
Similar threads
