Lighting loops and consumer box...

[swiss2008]

So in other words, the electrician pointed out that (in his opinion) the CU was a "fault" because an MCB trips when a fillament lamp blows (quite normal to me) and suggested the "cure" was a new consumer unit.

Having fitted the new consumer unit, which now has RCD's on the lighting circuits, he found a borrowed neutral so put all the lights on one MCB.

So now it is WORSE than before that all the lights trip when a bulb goes not just half of them.

I would say you have just cause to call him back and at least make it "no worse" than before he started his expensive "cure"  and he should put it right at his expense.

I agree totally ProDave, I will definitely be using the info I gain here to get it sorted!  He did later say that the consumer unit would have had to be changed anyway because it was now illegal...

 

[kerching]

because it was now illegal..

Right.......thaT statement is total B.O.L.L.O.C.K.S.   ABSOLUTELY 

wiring regs are NOT statute law theybare a code of practice therefore NON compliance with a Code of Practice CANNOT by definition be illegal

an electrician  who starts using  such expressions in this scenario ain't no Spark

 

[Murdoch]

I would say you have just cause to call him back and at least make it "no worse" than before he started his expensive "cure"  and he should put it right at his expense.

Surely this is an issue the tenant should highlight to the LL and then it'll be interesting to hear is said spark highlighted this on his EIC

When I come across these situations I discuss them with the client and take it from there .....................

 

[Sharpend]

Right.......thaT statement is total B.O.L.L.O.C.K.S.   ABSOLUTELY 

wiring regs are NOT statute law theybare a code of practice therefore NON compliance with a Code of Practice CANNOT by definition be illegal

an electrician  who starts using  such expressions in this scenario ain't no Spark

you have to excuse Mr Kerching, being new to the industry he is very passionate about those that claim to have an understanding when clearly they don’t. 

 

[swiss2008]

That doesn't sound good (pardon the pun)

If you were one of my clients I would suggest keeping a list of which bulbs go and when - so if you see a pattern (say the lounge light) going regularly, then maybe investigating further may make sense, but could be costly.

Need more info really to make any more comments really

Was your old fuseboard one with fuse wire?

No this is it, sorry about the photos, taken on the electricians Ipad...

 

[swiss2008]

Right.......thaT statement is total B.O.L.L.O.C.K.S.   ABSOLUTELY 

wiring regs are NOT statute law theybare a code of practice therefore NON compliance with a Code of Practice CANNOT by definition be illegal

an electrician  who starts using  such expressions in this scenario ain't no Spark

Understood Kerching thank you!

 

[Murdoch]

No this is it, sorry about the photos, taken on the electricians Ipad...

View attachment 11498

View attachment 11499

I would have recommended that got changed too.

Did this come as the result of an EICR?

 

[swiss2008]

I would have recommended that got changed too.

Did this come as the result of an EICR?

Yes that's right....

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

From the sounds of it what you call two loops..

was in reality two protective devices supplying power the the same section(s) of cable..

So if one protective device was turned off, some part(s) of that circuit, (typically neutral conductor), could still become live via the other protective device..

This is a serious safety defect and does not comply with wiring regulation 314.4.

These types of problem are made safer by either...

(a) additional wiring installed to correct the wiring error..

Or

(b) combining both of the live feeds that supply the shared section of cable onto the same protective device..

Sounds like the electrician has opted for option (b)..

If you are still using incandescent lamps the chances are they are cheaply produced and imported back to UK,

and lack the internal lamp fusing that historic UK manufactured better quality lamps used to have..

Which are almost certain to cause tripping problems for modern MCB's / RCBO's when the surges during lamp failure can get quite large.

 

 

[swiss2008]

From the sounds of it what you call two loops..

was in reality two protective devices supplying power the the same section(s) of cable..

So if one protective device was turned off, some part(s) of that circuit, (typically neutral conductor), could still become live via the other protective device..

This is a serious safety defect and does not comply with wiring regulation 314.4.

These types of problem are made safer by either...

(a) additional wiring installed to correct the wiring error..

Or

(b) combining both of the live feeds that supply the shared section of cable onto the same protective device..

Sounds like the electrician has opted for option (b)..

If you are still using incandescent lamps the chances are they are cheaply produced and imported back to UK,

and lack the internal lamp fusing that historic UK manufactured better quality lamps used to have..

Which are almost certain to cause tripping problems for modern MCB's / RCBO's when the surges during lamp failure can get quite large.

 View attachment 11500

Is there no way to have the upstairs lights and downstairs lights on separate protective devices like we had with the old consumer unit, therefore only letting one floor go dark when a bulb blows?

 

[Sharpend]

Yes there is, but it will involve more work and potentially an additional cable being pulled in which may mean disturbance of your decoration/walls, depending upon the construction of the property.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Is there no way to have the upstairs lights and downstairs lights on separate protective devices like we had with the old consumer unit, therefore only letting one floor go dark when a bulb blows?

I have already answered that point if you read my post...

it would be option (a),  which involves some more expensive, time consuming work... 

"This is a serious safety defect and does not comply with wiring regulation 314.4.

These types of problem are made safer by either...

(a) additional wiring installed to correct the wiring error..

Or

(b) combining both of the live feeds that supply the shared section of cable onto the same protective device.."

opcorn

 

[binky]

 It is vey normal for traditional lamps to trip an MCB when they blow. As the filament vapourises it cuases a temporary short cct sufficient enough to upset modern MCBs.

If you have eyesight issues, look for 'natural daylight' lamps, sometimes known as 'artists lamps'. These are full colour spectrum and can really help with sight issues. You can get these in LED. 

 

[swiss2008]

 It is vey normal for traditional lamps to trip an MCB when they blow. As the filament vapourises it cuases a temporary short cct sufficient enough to upset modern MCBs.

If you have eyesight issues, look for 'natural daylight' lamps, sometimes known as 'artists lamps'. These are full colour spectrum and can really help with sight issues. You can get these in LED. 

Thank you I'll look into the non flicker daylight LED bulbs!

I have already answered that point if you read my post...

it would be option (a),  which involves some more expensive, time consuming work... 

"This is a serious safety defect and does not comply with wiring regulation 314.4.

These types of problem are made safer by either...

(a) additional wiring installed to correct the wiring error..

Or

(b) combining both of the live feeds that supply the shared section of cable onto the same protective device.."

opcorn

Thank you that's great info, I'd take option A obviously!

 

[swiss2008]

Ok so a new electrician has just visited, he was very shocked that the new consumer unit doesn't have something called an RCD??  He is now saying the whole circuit board needs to be replaced and he will talk to his gaffer... 

 

[Murdoch]

Ok so a new electrician has just visited, he was very shocked that the new consumer unit doesn't have something called an RCD??  He is now saying the whole circuit board needs to be replaced and he will talk to his gaffer... 

Could you post a picture of this so called new fuseboard?

 

[swiss2008]

Could you post a picture of this so called new fuseboard?

Here you go:

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Ok so a new electrician has just visited, he was very shocked that the new consumer unit doesn't have something called an RCD??  He is now saying the whole circuit board needs to be replaced and he will talk to his gaffer... 

The "new electrician" is clearly not very experienced, qualified, intelligent, if he thinks there are no residual current devices in that CU...

My only advice is avoid this person as much as possible as they do NOT know what they are talking about..

As I can 8 devices in you photo that can detect residual current leakage of 30ma as required by current wiring regs.

:C       

 

[swiss2008]

Do you think he could be unscrupulous?  

All I want is the lighting loops on separate fuses, if he does that I'm happy, I don't pay or chose the electricians, they are just sent by the  letting agent and the landlord pays.

 

[Sidney]

All I want is the lighting loops on separate fuses

That might not be possible if the lighting circuits have a shared neutral. What that means is there's a neutral cable that's common to both lighting circuits and will cause tripping issues if on two separate RCBOs.

If the circuit trips out when a lamp blows then I would look at upgrading the existing device, I can't say what size of rating without looking at test results for the existing circuits. I don't suppose you have any paperwork that was supplied when the new board was put in or the EICR?