Recent job

[ElectekAir]

Hi guys just having some problems with a job compleated last year.

New owner is going to rent it out so asked another local spark to do a landlords safety test.

Originally the job was done for a developer and he received all the real vent paperwork which seems like he did not pass on to the owner.

The other contractor came up with some interesting points I will try to keep this short,

firstly it is a TT system and they say that the 17th dual RCD installed should have 100ma RCD'ss in them not the 30ma ones code 1

But then how will they archive the required 30ma for all the cct's installed less then 50mm in the walls and also the socket outlets

Main earth bonding to water not connected leaving kitchen sink and taps a risk of electric shock code 1

The 10mm was not connected as the incoming is plastic then goes to polly then small amounts of copper at taps ect.

Light switch in bathroom less than 600mm from the sink code 2

The regs state 600mm from bath or shower so has nothing to do with the sink

No cross bonding on boiler code 2

Have not needed it from the 1990's

None of the cables are sufficiently terminated if consumer unit ( need to be folded over) this will cause nutsince tripping or faults code 4

Why? Not in any regs may be good practice but we don't do it

MCB supplying the cooker is a 40A and is incorrectly rated giving the cct too much power for the circuit it is protecting code 2

The MCB is there to protect the cable only not the load 6mm t+e on a 40 A is ok what about the stereo on the ring main then?

Hob and oven do not have any local isolation code 4

Look in the cuboard above the cooker there is two supply's one for hob one for oven

smoke detection wrong code 5

2 bed house a heat detector in kitchen and a smoke on upstairs landing stairs to landing within 4 m of the kitchen ( I know the distance is irrelavent just to indicate how small the property is) both interconnected

All my answers are in blue don't know why they are giving code1,2,3

looking for the best way to comment to the company on this

 

[NozSpark]

They have just wasted their money on the other guy's PIR... He clearly doesn't have a clue

However I personally wouldn't normally fit a plate switch in a bathroom and from your description the smokes might be suspect??

I'm guessing you've installed a LD1 (escape routes and rooms where a fire might start) system? But then you haven't installed a smoke near the front door???? Dunno:C

 

[wozz]

Bet the bloke doing the pir was the cheapest out of many for a reason!

 

[Steve3948]

Sounds like a right t**t coding like that.

How big is the bathroom, where is said switch in relation to bath or shower.

100mA clearly do not have a clue.

Main earth bond should be terminated even if its only to stop cock, even if its not doing anything.

I would reply and state what you know.

 

[ElectekAir]

The switch is at the entrance to the bathroom and the bath/shower is about 2.5m away

As for the earth bond to the water there is only plastic pipe near the stoptap so did not bond it however it was after confirming that the touch voltage was less than 50v

The only thing that they may be right on is the smokes as there is one heat and one smoke with nothing by the front door

 

[Steve3948]

As for the earth bond to the water there is only plastic pipe near the stoptap so did not bond it however it was after confirming that the touch voltage was less than 50v

I think if you see a earth cable just hanging and doing nothing people think wow earth wire not connected danger danger.

So just putting a clamp around the nut on the stop cock, just makes things look tidy and in order and does not start ring alarm bells to the unknown.

Isolation in cupboards not fully compliant, but you can enter that on certificate if it was under client instruction.

I think if done last year you should have detection in living room also along with hall and kitchen.

 

[Doc Hudson]

Hi guys just having some problems with a job compleated last year.New owner is going to rent it out so asked another local spark to do a landlords safety test.

Originally the job was done for a developer and he received all the real vent paperwork which seems like he did not pass on to the owner.

In what way have you been re involved? Is the customer saying you should do alterations? Just tell them the other electrician is wrong and you still stand by your certificate issued last year. If they have lost their copy you can supply a duplicate for

 

[PC Electrics]

Your smoke detection is insufficient. You should have a smoke in the hallway too (and both smokes should be optical: I refer you to any number of advice publications from Aico amongst others). Offer to fit one with a radio base.

Who signed off the smokes install?

In all other respects, that report is a pile of p00.

Why don't you simply do as Doc suggests and see what response you get, if any.

If you feel the need to reply in more detail, why not draft it out and post it up here and we'll help you hone it.

 

[Manator]

I would agree with the above posts, the smokes are not really correct but I have seen loads done the same way, I would always run a bond to a mains water especially after finding that on one job it was moved! There is no need to bond a plastic pipe and you are correct on the boiler cross bonding.

I would not get involved with the other electrician he is clearly wrong on so many levels.

 

[ProDave]

Agree with other on smokes.

Yes earth bond the brass stop cock even if it's plastic pipe both sides. You went to the trouble of fitting the cable so might as well do something with it.

Even if regs allow it, I just never never fit a plate light switch in a bathroom, always a pull cord, or switch just OUTSIDE the bathroom. a switch inside just doesn't feel right.

 

[ElectekAir]

Thanks for the replys guys been talking to niceic about it and will be able to respond on monday I take the points made about the smokes, clearly I am wrong on them and will rectify if niceic tell me the same too.

The property was a re-wire and extension

As for the light switch the guy does not like pull switches and there was no space just outside the bathroom to put it and I did not want to put it on the nearest wall about 3m away. The other bathroom had a proximity sensor so no switch.

The isolators for the hob and oven were the same really as the guy again wanted two supplies one for each and did not want to see them, trying to find the regulation stating they cannot be in a local cuboard except for being able to get to them in the event of a fault (repair to appliance is a different story and ok where it is) it was something I spoke to niceic about when I was told to put them there

But thanks again for all your guys help it is just very annoying that now the reputation is ruined and the developer will think about using someone else in the future

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

If the building is less than 2 floors & the LABC did not stipulate then you did not have to fit any smokes.

 

[Evans Electric]

Thanks for the replys guys been talking to niceic about it and will be able to respond on monday I take the points made about the smokes, clearly I am wrong on them and will rectify if niceic tell me the same too.The property was a re-wire and extension

As for the light switch the guy does not like pull switches and there was no space just outside the bathroom to put it and I did not want to put it on the nearest wall about 3m away. The other bathroom had a proximity sensor so no switch.

The isolators for the hob and oven were the same really as the guy again wanted two supplies one for each and did not want to see them, trying to find the regulation stating they cannot be in a local cuboard except for being able to get to them in the event of a fault (repair to appliance is a different story and ok where it is) it was something I spoke to niceic about when I was told to put them there

But thanks again for all your guys help it is just very annoying that now the reputation is ruined and the developer will think about using someone else in the future

Don't think you will find it M8 , for what its worth I think they're fine in the cupboard.

And theres a ruling somewhere that if the water pipes are plastic forget the bond. Don't think I'd be bothering to attach it to the stop valve TBH . If I knew the pipes were plastic at the time , there'd be no 10mm there.

And the other guy's report that the terminations were not bent over double is an absolute classic along with the 40A breaker supplying too much power .

 

[batty]

I certainly would not fit a standard light switch in a bathroom as Prodave says it doesn't seem right.

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

From the ESC Best practice guide,

Q16. Can accessories and electrical equipment such as socket-outlets and under-cupboard lighting be fixed to fitted kitchen units?

Yes, provided that they are securely fixed to rigid parts of the units that are not demountable or otherwise liable to be disturbed in normal service. However, care must be taken to comply with all the relevant requirements of BS 7671, including accessibility for inspection, testing and maintenance, and provision of adequate protection against damage (by impact or water for example) for the accessories, equipment and associated wiring.

Regulation number(s)

530.4.2

 

[Evans Electric]

There was a sea change in kitchens ...all at once it seemed, no one wanted to look at all the isolators on show . We always used to fit sw/spurs above, to feed sockets under w/top but no one wants them these days ....don't blame them TBH .

 

[M107]

My input on the smokes, as a minimum I tend to put an ionization in the groundfloor hall way near the front door incase any flaming material is put through the letterbox, a heat detector in the kitchen & an optical on the landing to pick up any smouldering burns.

 

[welchyboy]

How annoying, that makes you look like a **** infront of the customer now

Dual 30ma rcd set up for tt is fine as long as its at least 2 rcds

Bonding a PVC incoming and outgoing pipe is pointless, strictly speaking a wall switch outside zone 2 is also ok, cooker and hob on same isolator I would say was no problem, only point would be the smoke in the hall which isn't covered by an eicr or bs 7671 anyway and at most should be an observation

I would gather your evidence first then get his number call him up and let him have it!!!

What a numpty!! Aaaggggghh

So many clowns in this industry

 

[Revved Up Sparky]

I certainly would not fit a standard light switch in a bathroom as Prodave says it doesn't seem right.

+1

In my view dripping wet naked bodies and standard light switches don't mix, all it takes is a tiny dribble of water from a finger to get through the tiny narrow gap surrounding the switch module to touch live parts and deliver an electric shock.

 

[welchyboy]

^^ yes I agree too but when doin an eicr it complies with the regs so you couldn't code it could you