Surveyor demands CU Cabinet changed to steel.

[Billy sheds]

Hi, My son is in the process of trying to sell his old (circa 1889) semi in Sheffield. The purchaser's structural surveyor has said, and I quote "According to building regulations, the consumer unit should be enclosed in a cabinet or enclosure constructed of non-combustible material such as steel. we recommend you engage a qualified electrical engineer, registered with NICEIC, to replace the unit. They also suggest, quite correctly that the services be tested and an EICR issued. My understanding is that if the MCBs and RCDs are OK the Cu does NOT need to be changed. Please can anyone clarify this and provide ammo for my little boy ( he's 6' 6" and 45 years old!). Many thanks

 

[Murdoch]

Nonsense.

Suggest your son gets a proper EICR done by a competent spark.

A surveyor is not a competent spark

 

[Phoenix]

The building regulations contain no such requirement. The requirement comes from the British standard for electrical installations(BS7671) which has contained it since 2015. Interesting the official guience to part P of the building regulaltions (the approved document) dates from 2013 and references the 2011 update to BS7671 as the recommended way of complying with building regs....

 

[binky]

There's some requirements in rental properties for fire enclosed boards in hallways - usually some prat builds the cupboard so you can't open the board...

In domestic there's no requirement for this.

 

[Fleeting]

Ask where this is stated in the Building Regulations.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Hi, My son is in the process of trying to sell his old (circa 1889) semi in Sheffield. The purchaser's structural surveyor has said, and I quote "According to building regulations, the consumer unit should be enclosed in a cabinet or enclosure constructed of non-combustible material such as steel. we recommend you engage a qualified electrical engineer, registered with NICEIC, to replace the unit. They also suggest, quite correctly that the services be tested and an EICR issued. My understanding is that if the MCBs and RCDs are OK the Cu does NOT need to be changed. Please can anyone clarify this and provide ammo for my little boy ( he's 6' 6" and 45 years old!). Many thanks

Short answer:
You are quite correct.

Longer answer:
Building regulations apply where you are building a new property, or extending an existing property, or doing certain types of electrical alterations, (e.g. replacing a consumer unit, adding new circuits), etc.

They do NOT apply when selling an existing property..
They do NOT apply if you are not building a new property..
They do NOT apply if you are not extending an existing property..
They do NOT apply if you are not doing specific electrical alterations..

i.e. you have to get building regulations compliance approval for various types of works..
You do NOT have to get any building regulations compliance approval when you are buying or selling a property..

Therefore whatever building regulations may or may not recommend is irrelevant in your situation.
Otherwise you would also have to comply with all of the other parts of the building regs, not just part P, e.g. Part-M, ensuring all ground floor rooms are wheel-chair accessible, and sockets and switches are raised up / lowered down the wall to make them wheelchair accessible, and that there is a downstairs loo large enough to turn a wheelchair in etc.. etc..!

A periodic inspection to BS7671 carried out by a competent person, (no need to be NICEIC), would result in an Electrical Installation Condition Report being issued, giving an overall evaluation if the installation is 'satisfactory' or 'unsatisfactory' for continued use, with any observations/anomalies coded..

An industry recognised guide for coding observations on EICR's is best practice guide 4.
Where the third item up from the bottom of page 20 suggests a plastic CU, located under wooden stairs or the sole escape route is just a code "C3" improvement recommended..

Which is NOT an immediate or potential danger and would not prevent an installation from being considered satisfactory.. Free PDF copy a available:-
https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/media/fpton1au/bpg4-a5-2022.pdf

In summary the bloke is talking Tosh!!

 

[Andy™]

Hi, My son is in the process of trying to sell his old (circa 1889) semi in Sheffield. The purchaser's structural surveyor has said, and I quote "According to building regulations, the consumer unit should be enclosed in a cabinet or enclosure constructed of non-combustible material such as steel.

nope. nothing in any building reg says that. BS7671 says that, however regs are not retrospective.

registered with NICEIC,

ask him how much he is being paid to promote a specific company over others or just a generic 'registered electrician'. even though there's no requirement to be registered with any of the scams either

 

[kerching]

The 'structural surveyor' ( and I use that term in the loosest of festering rancid dogs diarrhoea looseness ) is a person who needs to have a strong word with himself.
Ask him to show you the specific Reg that states this!

 

[UNG]

These days I often question the value of some of the home buyers / surveyors reports I've seen, quite often I hear of buyers who have opted for the more expensive enhanced / comprehensive survey which is little or no better than the standard survey costing in some cases a ¼ of the price
The problem with all surveys is they have limitations these have over the years building surveys have been impacted by changes to health and safety rules, it is very rare to see a surveyor with a ladder of any size or type
While some of these reports have pictures appended to them to support comments that are made I have yet to see one where a picture of the CU or mains incomer is included or any comment on the number of socket outlets which can give an indication on the age and possible state of the electrical installation the best you get is a single sntence comment engage an NICEIC approved contractor to carry out an EICR

It is very clear to see that the highly experienced and knowledgeable surveyors of the past are leaving or have left the business most reports now are a word processed amalgamation of standard stock phrases and comments with little personalisation relating to the surveyed property or past history of compliance with the regulations in force since the property was built and or modified or extended

 

[Billy sheds]

Nonsense.

Suggest your son gets a proper EICR done by a competent spark.

A surveyor is not a competent spark

Hi Murdoch, Thanks for the reply. Can you or anyone give me something to quote (personally, I like "nonsense!"). I am aware of local electrical company here near Brecon who are telling people they have to change their plastic CUs for metal and charge them £2000 for the pleasure. I'd just like to give my son the relevant section of the regs...

 

[Fleeting]

Just ask where in the Building Regulations this is quoted.

 

[Murdoch]

Hi Murdoch, Thanks for the reply. Can you or anyone give me something to quote (personally, I like "nonsense!"). I am aware of local electrical company here near Brecon who are telling people they have to change their plastic CUs for metal and charge them £2000 for the pleasure. I'd just like to give my son the relevant section of the regs...

Bottom line is that this so called surveyor is not a competent spark

Your son needs to get a decent EICR done to establish what the facts are

Also Google electrical safety council best practice guide No 4 and take a read. I think it’s now at issue 6 but issue 5 is more helpful if you can find a copy

 

[binky]

I am aware of local electrical company here near Brecon who are telling people they have to change their plastic CUs for metal and charge them £2000 for the pleasure.

the sort of thieving barstewrds we despise in the industry.

 

[Billy sheds]

Short answer:
You are quite correct.

Longer answer:
Building regulations apply where you are building a new property, or extending an existing property, or doing certain types of electrical alterations, (e.g. replacing a consumer unit, adding new circuits), etc.

They do NOT apply when selling an existing property..
They do NOT apply if you are not building a new property..
They do NOT apply if you are not extending an existing property..
They do NOT apply if you are not doing specific electrical alterations..

i.e. you have to get building regulations compliance approval for various types of works..
You do NOT have to get any building regulations compliance approval when you are buying or selling a property..

Therefore whatever building regulations may or may not recommend is irrelevant in your situation.
Otherwise you would also have to comply with all of the other parts of the building regs, not just part P, e.g. Part-M, ensuring all ground floor rooms are wheel-chair accessible, and sockets and switches are raised up / lowered down the wall to make them wheelchair accessible, and that there is a downstairs loo large enough to turn a wheelchair in etc.. etc..!

A periodic inspection to BS7671 carried out by a competent person, (no need to be NICEIC), would result in an Electrical Installation Condition Report being issued, giving an overall evaluation if the installation is 'satisfactory' or 'unsatisfactory' for continued use, with any observations/anomalies coded..

An industry recognised guide for coding observations on EICR's is best practice guide 4.
Where the third item up from the bottom of page 20 suggests a plastic CU, located under wooden stairs or the sole escape route is just a code "C3" improvement recommended..

Which is NOT an immediate or potential danger and would not prevent an installation from being considered satisfactory.. Free PDF copy a available:-
https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/media/fpton1au/bpg4-a5-2022.pdf

In summary the bloke is talking Tosh!!

Thanks a million for all of your replies. I can arm my son with these when he talks to his purchaser and or spark.

 

[Fleeting]

Down to the purchaser to undertake an EICR.

 

[UNG]

Thanks a million for all of your replies. I can arm my son with these when he talks to his purchaser and or spark.

Has this surveyor got an undisclosed interest in this property or connection to the buyer which may influence the comments he made in his report the consequence iscouraged due to the surveybeing an attempt to reduce the value / price of the property by the prospective buyer, I have also seen it where prospective buyers are dicouraged from buying due to the survey outcome and then somebody connected to the surveyor appears and makes a reduced offer to buy it and makes a killing at someone else's expense because they didn't pay for survey's and searches,
Highlighting one small part of an installation and suggesting non compliance with current regs does not neccessarily mean that the installation is not good for continued use, I would suggest that if the buyer tries to play hard ball on the surveyors comments then it may be down to how much you want the sale ok they may go for an EICR but you then have the problem of gauging how good or bad that is