Testing requirement on overheated fuse switch to heater

[James_F]

Hi

I have no electrical qualifications.

I speak on behalf of a group of tenants. The cover plate to the 13A fuse switch supplying the communal electric convector heater, had cracked with burn marks. Heater is rated 2.8kw and was hard wired in to the fuse switch. Another device thought to be on the same circuit is a low voltage door entry intercom system, sharing the same trip switch on the landlord's consumer unit. 

The landlord ordered the electrician to permanently disconnect the heater on the grounds it was a fire risk and to replace the fuse switch with a new one. The attending electrician said he had seen this happening on other fuse switches that might be cheap imports, in his opinion it was not a fire risk.  Heater is 2 years old. 

The landlord refused to re-connect the heater claiming tenants had abused the heater by turning it up. Tenants have received no notices from the landlord of such behaviour and communal electric bills have gone down over the last 2 years, resulting in a budget surplus, so tenants disagree.

Tenants are concerned no electrical tests were instructed by the landlord before the fuse switch was replaced, to establish a cause for it overheating. 

Please could anyone advise if electrical testing was a requirement in this situation on the switch / heater/ circuit before changes were made and if so, under which regulation? 

Thanks

 

[Andy™]

common occurance, especially on cheaper ones, and isnt usually caused by dodgy wiring within the building.

i prefer to fit 20a DP switches if they are ont heir own radial, they last much longer

 

[James_F]

thanks Andy. Common on cheaper fuse switches?

Are there any regs stating an electrical test should have been arranged if landlord believed switch / heater was a fire risk?

 

[Andy™]

all wiring should be tested at regular intervals anyway, but often isnt. usually 5-10 years or change of occupancy for domestic. landlords are not well known for doing thigs properly and would rather not do anything un necessary like test the wiring

 

[Evans Electric]

Me too .     Trouble is most accessories are cheap imports .    Its running a little close to it's rating & probably happen again .  As Andy says ,  a 20A DP switch & a 16A MCB  perhaps.    I think the electrician has been over-ruled by the landlord  .   

The electrician wouldn't carry out any tests "to the Regs "   as such ,   sounds like he's  checked the power drawn by the heater and if no loose terminals ,  diagnosed a cheapo imported spur unit   as would most on here .    

 

[James_F]

Thank you both. In addition to the 20A DP switch advice, are there any particular regs that could be quoted ?  Tenants wish to look in to obtaining a written report from someone qualified to attend the premises and support grounds to have the heater re-connected.

Also the heater's flex, which is soldered in to the heater, has been cut. In your opinion would that require a new heater,  or could new flex be safely connected to the old given the flex is hanging free on the communal wall.

 

[Doc Hudson]

A 13A fused spur should by its very name be capable of carrying a 13amp load. Your heater at 2800watts should be approx. 11.5  to 12amps, (dependant upon fluctuations of supply voltage).  So the switch should not be overloaded or a fire risk. But as has been said the quality and cost of different manufactures fused spurs can leave a bit to be desired. If you do a quick search on Screwfix.com for white plastic fused spurs then you will find prices from £3.12 to £8.97. Its not rocket science to see they are not all built to the same quality.  Plus even with a good quality accessory if the terminations have not been secured tight enough then overheating issues can be encountered. I don't think you will find any specific regulations relating to your problem, other than the basics of good workmanship and proper materials should be used. There is no requirement to issue any certificate or undertake any further testing of a circuit when doing simple like-for-like maintenance replacements. (as the initial design, installation and testing certification, and/or subsequent periodic inspection & testing reports should still be adequate). There is no valid reason not to have the heater reconnected in my opinion.

Doc H.

 

[binky]

This would be viewed as maintenace and no tests would be performed as such. As stated above, it is either a sightly dodgy connection, or just a failed switch fuse. I doubt there is anything wrong with the heater of circuit. I am assuming from the landlords behaviour that they pay for the electric used by the heater, ergo, he would rather not re-connect it? 

 

[James_F]

A 13A fused spur should by its very name be capable of carrying a 13amp load. Your heater at 2800watts should be approx. 11.5  to 12amps, (dependant upon fluctuations of supply voltage).  So the switch should not be overloaded or a fire risk. But as has been said the quality and cost of different manufactures fused spurs can leave a bit to be desired. If you do a quick search on Screwfix.com for white plastic fused spurs then you will find prices from £3.12 to £8.97. Its not rocket science to see they are not all built to the same quality.  Plus even with a good quality accessory if the terminations have not been secured tight enough then overheating issues can be encountered. I don't think you will find any specific regulations relating to your problem, other than the basics of good workmanship and proper materials should be used. There is no requirement to issue any certificate or undertake any further testing of a circuit when doing simple like-for-like maintenance replacements. (as the initial design, installation and testing certification, and/or subsequent periodic inspection & testing reports should still be adequate). There is no valid reason not to have the heater reconnected in my opinion.

Doc H.

Thanks. We will need to find an electrical consultant to carry out an inspection and written report to back up tenants' request for re-connection . Does the heater need replacing due to the cut flex which is now not long enough to reach the spur ?

This would be viewed as maintenace and no tests would be performed as such. As stated above, it is either a sightly dodgy connection, or just a failed switch fuse. I doubt there is anything wrong with the heater of circuit. I am assuming from the landlords behaviour that they pay for the electric used by the heater, ergo, he would rather not re-connect it? 

Thanks, the tenants pay for the electricity through communal service charge

 

[Evans Electric]

We will need to find an electrical consultant to carry out an inspection and written report to back up tenants' request for re-connection

The electrician has actually already that by  (a)  Inspecting . (b) Checking loose connections   etc  .He probably thought as we did ,   fit a quality  spur or DP switch & it'll be fine,  but has  to follow the landlord's orders ,  its his property .   Even if  you  employed a whole team of electrical engineers  to claim that the circuit was now safe , at great cost I may add,     the landlord calls the tune  I'm afraid.  

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

This would be viewed as maintenace and no tests would be performed as such. As stated above, it is either a sightly dodgy connection, or just a failed switch fuse. I doubt there is anything wrong with the heater of circuit. I am assuming from the landlords behaviour that they pay for the electric used by the heater, ergo, he would rather not re-connect it? 

Nowt much to add to this from the posts already contributed by my esteemed co-members...

BUT..

My £20 bet would be on Binky having hit the nail on the head as they say!!!

   :Salute

Guinness

 

[binky]

flex into heater is easily replaced normally. I would be inclimed to pay someone to repair it and not tell landlord  :innocent

 

[James_F]

The electrician has actually already that by  (a)  Inspecting . (b) Checking loose connections   etc  .He probably thought as we did ,   fit a quality  spur or DP switch & it'll be fine,  but has  to follow the landlord's orders ,  its his property .   Even if  you  employed a whole team of electrical engineers  to claim that the circuit was now safe , at great cost I may add,     the landlord calls the tune  I'm afraid.  

Thanks. The electrician was great, despite being in-house he disagreed with the landlord's handling and he couldn't do anymore than he advised. It's the tenants paying for the electricity through a communal service charge so no skin off the landlord's nose. The problem is we have vulnerable tenants relying on the heating in winter to mobilize using the communal stairs and the landlord is without good reason breaking Section 11 Landlord Tenant Act by not keeping communal space heating in working order. To challenge this we do wish to acquire a written report stating as advised by you guys that there is no reason not to re-connect heater.

 

[James_F]

Nowt much to add to this from the posts already contributed by my esteemed co-members...

BUT..

My £20 bet would be on Binky having hit the nail on the head as they say!!!

   :Salute

Guinness

it's the tenants paying for the electricity through communal service charge. However tenants did have to take the landlord to court over substantial disrepair elsewhere on the premises. It appears the landlord's actions on the heating is retaliatory

 

[James_F]

flex into heater is easily replaced normally. I would be inclimed to pay someone to repair it and not tell landlord  :innocent

Would the current flex being soldered in to the heater be a problem ? 

Although we've seen inside the landlord's electric cupboard on staff attendance, we don't have our own key to it

Tenants would have to justify carrying out work arranged by themselves, by challenging the landlord's 'fire risk' allegation with a written report

 

[Bruspark]

Buy a 2KW convector heater and plug it in somewhere ?

 

[Andy™]

it's the tenants paying for the electricity through communal service charge. However tenants did have to take the landlord to court over substantial disrepair elsewhere on the premises. It appears the landlord's actions on the heating is retaliatory

you may be paying it through the service charge, but ill bet that once the heater is removed, you wont get any deductions for it

 

[binky]

Would the current flex being soldered in to the heater be a problem ? 

I doubt it is soldered.