Off-peak circuit not working - what next?

[JodieS]

Here you go - the ones with red dots are my meter and switch fuses (off-peak at the top), the blue ones are my neighbour's. Let me know if I've missed any key bits or need anything zoomed in. All of the black cables are routed out of a hole in the ceiling of the meter cupboard.

When we tested it during off-peak hours, the grey cable between my meter and o/p switch fuse was energised, but the black one coming out of the switch fuse wasn't. The neighbours had switched everything off at their CU at the time, but they've switched it back on now, so I'm going to do another test with my no-contact tester tonight...

 

[Fleeting]

Turn off your off peak switch fuse and see if things still work tonight.

 

[Murdoch]

With your neighbours agreement, get torches and turn off the switch fuse for your flat and see if all the lights and appliances stop working

 

[poni]

but the black one coming out of the switch fuse wasn't

it depends where you tested with the non-contact probe, as they cant read voltage through that sort of cable, it looks like concentric cable to me, you need to get to the brown cable in the middle of the black cable for that to work,
do what Murdoch says, to verify that that is your meter, then turn off your OP consumer unit in your flat and do a continuity test at the switch in the photo switched off, you should get an open circuit , then switch on the consumer unit you should then get some resistance from the heaters in your flat, if you get resistance at the first test then turn off your neighbours and test there,

 

[ProDave]

What did you test the black off peak cable with to determine it was not live? A volt stick probably won't give a reading as the outer cores of the split con cable shield the inner live.

What you need to do is again at night, when your off peak CU is energised, switch off all the off peak switch fuses one at a time until your off peak CU goes dead.

 

[JodieS]

Thanks guys, you're right, I tried last night but the no-contact tester method didn't work as it couldn't detect a current through the thick outer cable, even on the ones which were definitely live.

I'll try it again tonight with by switching the off-peak switch fuses off one at a time. Ideally need access to the neighbour's flat so I can see what is happening at their CU as well. Will ask the landlords if they'll lend me a spare key, so they don't have to come out before 7.30am!

 

[Fleeting]

It is possible your off peak is for some reason isolated in their flat and not metered there and when they vacated it was switched off. Switch off your off peak supply tonight.

 

[poni]

it is possible your off peak is for some reason isolated in their flat and not metered there and when they vacated it was switched off. Switch off your off peak supply tonight.

if its crossed over it will be in the meter room and is a simple fix, if that is what is going on, but you will be a while if you have not got the correct test gear,
first make sure that the meter you think is yours is really yours, ( turn both of your switches off and make sure that there is no power in your flat),
if there is electric then you will need to find which meter is yours
if there is no electric than this meters is yours, next you will need to test the at the switch you think is your OP switch to see if that is yours or your neighbours( do as I posted first)

 

[Fleeting]

if its crossed over it will be in the meter room and is a simple fix, if that is what is going on, but you will be a while if you have not got the correct test gear,
first make sure that the meter you think is yours is really yours, ( turn both of your switches off and make sure that there is no power in your flat),
if there is electric then you will need to find which meter is yours
if there is no electric than this meters is yours, next you will need to test the at the switch you think is your OP switch to see if that is yours or your neighbours( do as I posted first)

My suggestion is that the supply may for some reason be isolated in the other flat.

 

[ProDave]

My suggestion is that the supply may for some reason be isolated in the other flat.

The OP could ask if he could take a picture of all the consumer units and any other switchgear in the other flat.

 

[poni]

My suggestion is that the supply may for some reason be isolated in the other flat.

not very likely,

 

[Fleeting]

not very likely,

Maybe not but it needs ruling out. There is a possibility the submain was incorrectly routed there and it was resolved by extending it through an isolator.

 

[poni]

Maybe not but it needs ruling out. There is a possibility the submain was incorrectly routed there and it was resolved by extending it through an isolator.

possible but not likely , check the simple things first, ( just think if it was you that installed it, what could you have got wrong?)

more likely that it was crossed over between flats, but the op needs to check that he thinks is his meter is in fact his meter, I have seen meters marked up wrong before, sometimes the simple answer is the correct one

 

[Fleeting]

possible but not likely , check the simple things first, ( just think if it was you that installed it, what could you have got wrong?)

more likely that it was crossed over between flats, but the op needs to check that he thinks is his meter is in fact his meter, I have seen meters marked up wrong before, sometimes the simple answer is the correct one

See #62.

 

[poni]

See #62.

the op needs to turn off both switches he thinks are his, then he will have a starting place

 

[UNG]

With what has been found out upto now it wouldn't take a half decent spark that long to sort this out in normal hours during the day

 

[JodieS]

Hi everyone

I got the spare keys to the neighbour's flat and tested everything last night, turning on one fuse switch at a time then checking whether the associated CUs were energised or not with a no-contact tester.

As expected, "my" off-peak fuse switch only energises the neighbour's off-peak CU, and vice-versa. The peak circuits are all correct.

So either the fuse switches are labelled the wrong way around, or the black concentric cables that run between the switches and the CUs have been crossed over. I think probably the latter, as if the switches were labelled incorrectly then from right to left they would go 13, 14, 16, 15, 17, 18 (i.e. out of sequence) which would be odd, plus the peak switches below them are correct.

My electrician has said he's not technically allowed to swap the black cables over without involving the metering companies. What do you guys think?

 

[Murdoch]

He is right to say he can’t touch the meters but was about swapping the outputs off the switched fuses?

Also sounds like you need a more competent spark too

 

[JodieS]

I'm pretty sure he's competent, just cautious - as swapping the outputs would affect the meter readings. In this case I lose out as I'm the one who has been using kwh more compared to my neighbours, but imagine if it was the other way around He's going to ask NICEIC for advice.

Just want to get a sense of whether he is being overly cautious as I would like to avoid involving the meter companies if possible (will be a nightmare!) and come to a private arrangement with my ex-neighbours to pay them back. To be honest if I can find a spark who is happy to just swap them over then I will (but might be an awkward job as they look like they're cut to size, so the one that has to 'reach' further might need extending)

 

[Murdoch]

I'm pretty sure he's competent, just cautious - as swapping the outputs would affect the meter readings. In this case I lose out as I'm the one who has been using kwh more compared to my neighbours, but imagine if it was the other way around He's going to ask NICEIC for advice.

Just want to get a sense of whether he is being overly cautious as I would like to avoid involving the meter companies if possible (will be a nightmare!) and come to a private arrangement with my ex-neighbours to pay them back. To be honest if I can find a spark who is happy to just swap them over then I will (but might be an awkward job as they look like they're cut to size, so the one that has to 'reach' further might need extending)

Think you need a 2nd opinion

If the meters are feeding the wrong switch fuses then swapping the outputs around will fix the problem if I understand your issue correctly