To RCD or Not to RCD

[Blue Fox]

Hello all,

I'm pricing a job to add a socket for a a washing machine in kitchen. Everything will be surface mounted from an original socket to a fused spur then below the worktop to a single socket also surface mounted. Does this need to be RCD'd?? It fed from a MK Sentry c/u and much of the ring is buried in wall just not the bit i'm doing.

Thanks

 

[wozz]

doesnt need a rcd if the socket is labelled for a specific purpose.

 

[Brian 157]

411.3.3 states that an RCD is required on sockets rated below 20A unless:

"a) socket outlets for use under the supervision of skilled or instructed persons, e.g in some commercial or industrial locations, or

B) a specific labelled or otherwise suitably identified socket outlet provided for connection of a particular item of equipment"

Of course if the wiring is all surface or mini-trunked you could wire the washing machine to a switched fused spur...

 

[ianmacd]

411.3.3 states that an RCD is required on sockets rated below 20A unless:"a) socket outlets for use under the supervision of skilled or instructed persons, e.g in some commercial or industrial locations, or

B) a specific labelled or otherwise suitably identified socket outlet provided for connection of a particular item of equipment"

Of course if the wiring is all surface or mini-trunked you could wire the washing machine to a switched fused spur...

Why to a SFCU when its labled for the washing machine?

 

[Brian 157]

ianmacd, you are quite right but in my experience there are some clever persons out there, using a spur-unit stops anybody unplugging the washing machine, plugging the extension lead into the socket & mowing the lawn in the rain (which wouldn't be Blue Fox's responsibility, but tell that to the local paper!)

 

[spinlondon]

Placing an SFCU above the worktop, would allow the washing machine to be isolated, before pulling out the machine for maintenance, or repair.

 

[ianmacd]

Placing an SFCU above the worktop, would allow the washing machine to be isolated, before pulling out the machine for maintenance, or repair.

Assuming you place the socket behind the machine and not in an ajacent cupboard.

 

[spinlondon]

Assuming you place the socket behind the machine and not in an ajacent cupboard.

Absolutly, and by doing so, you would make it more difficult for someone to use the socket for any other purpose.

 

[batty]

Why not just put RCD spur above worktop extra

 

[Lee321]

Placing an SFCU above the worktop, would allow the washing machine to be isolated, before pulling out the machine for maintenance, or repair.

good and very standard practice

 

[Lee321]

Why not just put RCD spur above worktop extra

 

[batty]

why rcd it batty?no requirement too!? but i guess thats the big question the existing cables are <50mm so are we required to on that front?

i'd say not although would advise client to upgrade the circuit if refused then note on the mwc

Just makes it safer if washing machine goes fauty will trip out before it catches on fire.

 

[safedepth]

I was under the impression that once we had altered the cct, in this case adding to it, we took responsibility for the whole cct. Therefore if it requires extra protection we must install it. Part of this socket outlet cct is buried <50mm and would require a RCD.

Am I wrong? ?:|

 

[Lee321]

I was under the impression that once we had altered the cct, in this case adding to it, we took responsibility for the whole cct. Therefore if it requires extra protection we must install it. Part of this socket outlet cct is buried <50mm and would require a RCD.Am I wrong? ?:|

your right but if the customer won't pay

its not a license to get out of the regs and doing the right thing but in this instance i'm of the opinion your not doing anything "out of order"

i.e where does it end.

if someone wants a socket and you say yes i can do but you need your tails,bonding and rcd

 

[spinlondon]

My understanding is that only the alteration or addition has to comply with the Regs.

 

[wozz]

depends if you read and believe what is written in wiring matters.

 

[spinlondon]

depends if you read and believe what is written in wiring matters.

Unfortunately, Mark has misquoted Regulation 411.3.3, in so far as the regulation refers to socket-outlets, not circuits.

The only Regulation that refers to RCD protection for circuits is in Section 701 Locations containing a bath or shower.

 

[ianmacd]

My understanding is that only the alteration or addition has to comply with the Regs.

As is mine. If your alteration needs the RCD then either RCD the whole circuit (ideally) or just the bit you are doing.