Where does poor Workmanship end and contrary to regs begin?

[BorisJ]

Not installing a DP switch for a shower is not following manufacturers installation instructions and I'm sure that that is against the regs ???

You are wrong. Manufacturers instructions are for guidance only. Manufacturers instructions are often wrong so one should not follow them in that case.

As an example if MI say you should fit an isolator they are wrong as it is not required by the regs.

Here is another incorrect MI asking for a 16 amp fuse in a fcu.

 

[champagnecharly]

You are wrong. Manufacturers instructions are for guidance only. Manufacturers instructions are often wrong so one should not follow them in that case.

As an example if MI say you should fit an isolator they are wrong as it is not required by the regs.

Here is another incorrect MI asking for a 16 amp fuse in a fcu.
View attachment 15175

Boris, do I underatand that your opinion is that manufacturers instructions are generally wrong?
is it also your opinion that it is wrong to fit an isolator for an extractor when the extractor is on the lighting circuit?

 

[Murdoch]

Boris, do I underatand that your opinion is that manufacturers instructions are generally wrong?
is it also your opinion that it is wrong to fit an isolator for an extractor when the extractor is on the lighting circuit?

Boris likes to criticise. But rarely, if ever says much in a constructive manner

 

[sirsparkabit]

Yeah but no but yeah but no but

 

[Sidewinder]

It’s quite amazing really how wrong manufacturer's instructions are, when you consider that they are a legal requirement.
Also that they don’t provide the required information in the correct way.
They form part of the product and therefore they are covered by the product legislation.
This means they need to be utilised by the installer in full.
Strictly speaking if the instructions are wrong then the product is not compliant with the standards and legislation, which is a breach of Appendix 1, which is Normative and therefore part of the requirements of BS7671.

 

[Andy1733]

I bought an oven for a rented property. It came with a 13 amp plug on it. The instructions basically said plug and play. It wasn't till I called the manufacturer for a different enquiry that they stated even though the oven is plug in. The socket should be on its own MCB not on a ring/spur.

 

[Murdoch]

I bought an oven for a rented property. It came with a 13 amp plug on it. The instructions basically said plug and play. It wasn't till I called the manufacturer for a different enquiry that they stated even though the oven is plug in. The socket should be on its own MCB not on a ring/spur.

IIRC the regs say that appliances should be on a separate circuit, and should in English is different to must

if the appliance has a plug on it, plug it in….

 

[BorisJ]

Boris, do I underatand that your opinion is that manufacturers instructions are generally wrong?
is it also your opinion that it is wrong to fit an isolator for an extractor when the extractor is on the lighting circuit?

I used the word "often" not "generally".

I never said it was "wrong" to fit an isolator. But it is not a requirement.

 

[BorisJ]

It’s quite amazing really how wrong manufacturer's instructions are, when you consider that they are a legal requirement.

Yes, but no they are not a legal requirement, they are guidance only.

Also that they don’t provide the required information in the correct way.
They form part of the product and therefore they are covered by the product legislation.
This means they need to be utilised by the installer in full.

No, they need to be taken account of only.

Strictly speaking if the instructions are wrong then the product is not compliant with the standards and legislation, which is a breach of Appendix 1, which is Normative and therefore part of the requirements of BS7671.

OK.

 

[Sidewinder]

Yes, but no they are not a legal requirement, they are guidance only.

No, they need to be taken account of only.

OK.

Product instructions are a statutory legal requirement, regardless of what BS7671 says they are required by the Electrical Equipment Safety Regulations and said law requires them to suitable and sufficient.
If they are not then the manufacturer is in breach of said law.
BS 7671 is merely an aside in this.

 

[binky]

they are wrong as it is not required by the regs.

Not everything we work to is in the regs, we also work to the requirements of Building Control legislation. For instance breaking through a fire partition with cable runs has legal consequences

 

[mort2376]

Regulation 134.1.1 of BS 7671:2018+A2:2022 requires the installer to take account of manufacturer’s instructions.

The international standard for household and similar products is the IEC 60335 series. Clause 7.12.2 of IEC 60335-1:2020 Household and similar electrical appliances – Safety – Part 1: General requirements states:

7.12.2 If a stationary appliance is not fitted with a supply cord and a plug, or with other means for disconnection from the supply mains having a contact separation in all poles that provide full disconnection under overvoltage category III conditions, the instructions shall state that means for disconnection must be incorporated in the fixed wiring in accordance with the wiring rules.