Wonderful ....Yet another Certificate coming up .!!!

[Evans Electric]

The  ESI   in relation to rental properties.      Electrical Safety Inspection .

How to be listed as a competent contractor    ( to carry out rental checks)  

1. Two years experience of periodic testing .

2.  A qualification covering the  current Regulations.   :C  

3.  A qualification covering the 18th edition .

4.  Insurance including £2m  PL    plus £250,000  Professional Indemnity.

(From  latest Connector Magazine) 

 

[UNG]

2.  A qualification covering the current Regulations. And what regulations might these be given the 18th is mentioned at 3.

TBH it is looking like another totally pointless money sapping scam that you don't actually need to be a properly qualified and experienced electrician to be a part of

While the rental sector needs better supervision of the safety of tenants it doesn't need the NIC and Napit's money making input

 

[Evans Electric]

2.  A qualification covering the current Regulations. And what regulations might these be given the 18th is mentioned at 3.

No idea Ung  , thats what it says . 

I won't be bothering  at my age , I don't need another insurance , I don't need to take yet another Regs course .    

I did think testing rentals could have been a nice number for me & my mate , both old pharts  , but obviously  after over 50 yrs  we are not qualified to check over a few House Bashing  circuits ,  never mind .  

 

[Murdoch]

The  ESI   in relation to rental properties.      Electrical Safety Inspection .

(From  latest Connector Magazine) 

Whats the connector magazine?

aren’t 2 & 3 the same

and who is going to be “managing” this farce?

 

[sparkytim]

No new Certificate, same EICR. No new membership required, just Approved Contractor status existing QS requirements with 2 years experience as a QS who will all ready have 2391 or 2394 + 2395 18th Edition and PI insurance.

Simples

 

[ProDave]

This is a bit like what happened here in Scotland.

The Scottish Government introduced mandatory EICR's for rental properties.  They set the requirements which was basically you had to be a member of a scam.  competent persons scheme to do them.

Now everything else in Scotland does not require you to belong to a scam.  So I still do new build wiring and issue an EIC which building control accept to sign off the new build.  But unless I stump up the money and go through the hassle of joining a scam I can no longer do an EICR for a property rental.  I can still do an EICR for any other purpose.

You will be faced with the same thing.  Pay an extra fee and jump through some extra hoops just so you can do EICR's for rental properties.

The result will be fewer people having the right bit of paper to do a rental EICR so fewer choices for the customer, and no doubt a higher cost for the customer.  The only winners being the scam providers dipping their noses deeper into the trough.

No wonder some of us can't wait for retirement to come soon enough and be done with the nonsense.

 

[Murdoch]

But unless I stump up the money and go through the hassle of joining a scam I can no longer do an EICR for a property rental.  I can still do an EICR for any other purpose.

That's a very interesting view on the issue

Like that

Round here, the rental EICR's are done for peanuts - so I avoid them anyway.

 

[kerching]

, both old pharts  , but obviously  after over 50 yrs  we are not qualified to check over a few House Bashing  circuits ,  never mind .  

Isn't it bizarre that you were qualified to design and install it and test  it n the first place !...but now

I was told at my Annual assessment two weeks ago that I needed an 18th  qual and a test and inspect one as well so I can carry on as QS and PDH formthencompany that I own and for which I am the sole employee.  

Last year I was told I didn't need any of it

so. In theory I cannot be deemed fit and competent to test my own rentals, which was nice!

 

[sparkytim]

So this should push out the cowboys,  cheap drive by fictional EICRs and with the demand there will be a decent return for our investment. ARLA are telling Landlords to expect a £150 fee for an avatar EICR working out at £30 per year for the 5 year max frequency. when you compare that with the ANNUAL Gas ticket at £60 just for 1 Boiler  it’s a good deal.  Mind you it’s going to kick in loads of remedial works on the first round, but that’s work that should have been done anyway.

Isn't it bizarre that you were qualified to design and install it and test  it n the first place !...but now

I was told at my Annual assessment two weeks ago that I needed an 18th  qual and a test and inspect one as well so I can carry on as QS and PDH formthencompany that I own and for which I am the sole employee.  

Last year I was told I didn't need any of it

so. In theory I cannot be deemed fit and competent to test my own rentals, which was nice!

Surely you would want the 18th anyway. Only £ 150
+ vat for an on line course And includes the exam

 

[Phoenix]

So this should push out the cowboys,  cheap drive by fictional EICRs and with the demand there will be a decent return for our investment.

Honestly Tim, you don't actually believe that do you?

We will simply see a load of domestic testing companies where the QS meets the requirements of the scheme, but oversees a load of cheap opperatives who don't have much expeirence/knoweldge, and are under pressure to test six domestic properties a day, yes, that happens today, but now they will be able to claim they are a specialist registered EICR company and charge a little bit more that will go straight to the owners pockets...

 

[Murdoch]

Honestly Tim, you don't actually believe that do you?

We will simply see a load of domestic testing companies where the QS meets the requirements of the scheme, but oversees a load of cheap opperatives who don't have much expeirence/knoweldge, and are under pressure to test six domestic properties a day, yes, that happens today, but now they will be able to claim they are a specialist registered EICR company and charge a little bit more that will go straight to the owners pockets...

Hit, nail & head springs to mind

 

[sparkytim]

Maybe, 

Hit, nail & head springs to mind

Honestly Tim, you don't actually believe that do you?

We will simply see a load of domestic testing companies where the QS meets the requirements of the scheme, but oversees a load of cheap opperatives who don't have much expeirence/knoweldge, and are under pressure to test six domestic properties a day, yes, that happens today, but now they will be able to claim they are a specialist registered EICR company and charge a little bit more that will go straight to the owners pockets...

We live in hope! The new rules coming in for QS require proof of supervision and grading of operatives who will also now require to be assessed  themselves by the scheme operator at least every 5 years, with ongoing CPD required and only acceptable as Inspection operatives if they have 2391 etc. 

 

[Evans Electric]

Whats the connector magazine?

Sorry   I meant  " Connections "    the NICEIC  magazine  .   (  Connector  is the Denmans  monthly pricing  publication . )   

 

[sparkytim]

Maybe, 

We live in hope! The new rules coming in for QS require proof of supervision and grading of operatives who will also now require to be assessed  themselves by the scheme operator at least every 5 years, with ongoing CPD required and only acceptable as Inspection operatives if they have 2391 etc. 

 

[UNG]

and who is going to be “managing” this farce?

Isn't it no other than Emma Clancy and her building regulation committee

No new Certificate, same EICR. No new membership required, just Approved Contractor status existing QS requirements with 2 years experience as a QS who will all ready have 2391 or 2394 + 2395 18th Edition and PI insurance.

Simples

I think you may be wrong my understanding is the NIC and NAPIT have been tasked by Ms Clancy with setting up a whole new rental ECIR scam

But unless I stump up the money and go through the hassle of joining a scam I can no longer do an EICR for a property rental.  I can still do an EICR for any other purpose.

This "specialism" thing has become the plague of the electrical industry in the last 25 - 30 years all run by the course sellers. The only thing they don't sell is a course that produces properly qualified electricians that find the real faults instead of the consumer unit not meeting the latest regs. How long will it be before we see EICR's with C1's because there is no SPD or AFDD

Honestly Tim, you don't actually believe that do you?

We will simply see a load of domestic testing companies where the QS meets the requirements of the scheme, but oversees a load of cheap opperatives who don't have much expeirence/knoweldge, and are under pressure to test six domestic properties a day, yes, that happens today, but now they will be able to claim they are a specialist registered EICR company and charge a little bit more that will go straight to the owners pockets...

Got to agree I fear it will go and be run the same way as the PAT / ISITEE companies have done for the last 10 years or more with appliance testing

Maybe, 

We live in hope! The new rules coming in for QS require proof of supervision and grading of operatives who will also now require to be assessed  themselves by the scheme operator at least every 5 years, with ongoing CPD required and only acceptable as Inspection operatives if they have 2391 etc. 

That sounds like like the NICEIC's requirements for there scheme entry. My understanding is that the Landlord's Rental EICR scheme is a totally different entity with it's own requirements although needing an ECS card would be a good start but the fact that it would probably exclude so many short course operatives it will fall at the first hurdle

View attachment 10664

A bit meaningless without all the other tables and Appendix 1 might have been better to post a link to the info

 

[Murdoch]

Isn't it no other than Emma Clancy and her building regulation committee

I think you may be wrong my understanding is the NIC and NAPIT have been tasked by Ms Clancy with setting up a whole new rental ECIR scam

I suspect Emma Clancy was parachuted from the NICEIC into her “advisory” role to ensure that the CPS’s could sew this up between them.

that would explain the rapid exit with no explanation .....

Maybe, 

We live in hope! The new rules coming in for QS require proof of supervision and grading of operatives who will also now require to be assessed  themselves by the scheme operator at least every 5 years, with ongoing CPD required and only acceptable as Inspection operatives if they have 2391 etc. 

I’ve just seen a pig flying past my window .....

 

[Murdoch]

I did think testing rentals could have been a nice number for me & my mate , both old pharts  , but obviously  after over 50 yrs  we are not qualified to check over a few House Bashing  circuits ,  never mind .  

Over 50 with 30 years of hands on experience not allowed to do EICRs

but a newbie who is good at exams can ?

now that is daft .....

surely a minimum time in the trade of 10 years should be a starting point and none of this QS sign off rubbish ...

 

[Evans Electric]

I'm afraid these days mate , everyone has to have a piece of paper to prove they know everything . 

I presume if the brown stuff hits the revolving extract unit over something or other you can say it can't be my fault I have a piece of paper to prove I'm competent .  

 

[Murdoch]

I'm afraid these days mate , everyone has to have a piece of paper to prove they know everything . 

I presume if the brown stuff hits the revolving extract unit over something or other you can say it can't be my fault I have a piece of paper to prove I'm competent .  

Qualifications over experience ...

now my crystal ball sees a time when the schemes won’t investigate poor practice unless the owner complains .... and most owners don’t have a clue .... sound familiar?

 

[UNG]

Over 50 with 30 years of hands on experience not allowed to do EICRs

but a newbie who is good at exams can ?

now that is daft .....

surely a minimum time in the trade of 10 years should be a starting point and none of this QS sign off rubbish ...

Experience isn't a requirement these days

With just over40 years in the trade about 6 months ago I was told I wasn't qualified by some upstart at a wholesalers trade evening, me and my mate where having a chat with a couple of other lads attending the event and the conversation got round to qualifications and the AM2 and NVQ my mate who is about 5 years younger than me said he had done the AM2 but not the NVQ as that came out after he had finished his apprenticeship and qualified, one of the lads told my mate if he had not done the NVQ he wasn't properly qualified when I told him I hadn't done either of them this lad ripped into me telling me I wasn't qualified and shouldn't be working as an electrician, I suggested he looked at the industry history as they only appeared about five years after my apprenticeship finished and I didn't see them as a must have qualification when they first appeared in the industry and even now the NVQ is of limited use against proper core qualifications and experience