Earth Wires - uninsulated

Hey Guys,

I am a newbee here. Happy to join this forum and engage in discussions, get help and help others.

I hope you guys are happy to consider my below question and post your opinion and ideas.

A friend of mine has a property that needs some structural repairs done and I am helping at the moment.

I noticed the earth wires behind the fuse board have very little to no insulation around them and also an earth wire or two running behind the wall completely naked.

Is this acceptable? A licensed electrician said to me it is ok if it's old work. 
I thought an uninsulated earth wire(even though it is just the earth) running right next to a live wire is kinda 
worrying 'cos if the live wire insulation gives way on some spots it can easily short circuit to the earth.
I am sure circuit breaker/fuses/RCDs will trip and save a major issue if they are property installed.

But is it ok to have such open earth wires? I've never seen like that before, hence the worry.

Please post your opinion and advice.

Is it safer to have insulated earth wires as I've seen in all the places before?

I am in Australia.

Thanx

I have only been down under twice, and I was not impressed with the way they do their electrics compared to what we do in the UK.

Bare earth wires used to be normal here but have not been so for a very long time, though you do occasionally still find some.  You should know better than us when it became a requirement to have sleeved earth wires there. But it is probably a case that the wiring of this house at least needs a thorough check and some upgrades, if not a complete rewire.

ProDave said:

I have only been down under twice, and I was not impressed with the way they do their electrics compared to what we do in the UK.

Bare earth wires used to be normal here but have not been so for a very long time, though you do occasionally still find some.  You should know better than us when it became a requirement to have sleeved earth wires there. But it is probably a case that the wiring of this house at least needs a thorough check and some upgrades, if not a complete rewire.

Click to expand...

Thank you.

Yes, the wiring is old. It is single core wire running through the walls and top of the ceiling. 

Bare earth wires here and there and the single cables that carry the insulated live and neutral wires inside the outer insulation still has bare single core or multi-strand earth wire inside it. 

But, I was bit surprised to see bare earth wires behind the wall because I've never seen it before, but apparently they did it like that many moons ago.

The wiring is fairly old I think. Not sooner that 70's. The new wires are all multi-strand insulated wires for earth wiring. 

A wiring upgrade is a very good idea for this house, but it is going to be quite a challenging labour intensive job.

Surely if you are in Australia then you should be using a REC with licensed Electricians. You will be breaking the law (and rightly so) by touching it yourself.

Bare copper wires for earthing has been around longer than I have.

On industrial plants I must have installed miles of bare 7/.064 and 0.125 copper tape. Its purpose is that it should tie everything to “earth” potential so no need for an insulating covering.

Risteard said:

Surely if you are in Australia then you should be using a REC with licensed Electricians. You will be breaking the law (and rightly so) by touching it yourself.

Click to expand...

What is an "REC"? 

Obviously the question was about the earth wires, not about touching or installing RCDs, but

I would like to know the direction from and to of your above advice including touching it by myself.

Thanx

Charged said:

What is an "REC"? 

Click to expand...

Registered Electrical Contractor. You will notice REC # whatever written on electrical contractors' vans in Australia. (Certainly I have seen it in Victoria.)

not sure why people think all CPC's need insulated. but are happy to touch the lump of uninsulated metal they are often attached to

Andy™ said:

So, why do we bother to insulate earth wires at all?

Click to expand...

I think most here are missing the point that in domestic installs we generally use 'twin & earth' cable which is pvc/pvc with a bare  earth or cpc. We then oversleeve the bare parts at the terminations.

In Australia i believe the 'twin & earth' also has an insulated earth (i think Ireland also does now).  

In the Uk alll earths were bare untill the 14th edition (1974-6 ?) So its common to see bare cpc's  and   single earths  lying about.

Its also the norm to see what the op called singles (but actually tw&e) laying in voids, under floors and in attics here.

I  Recall using singles and earth in the late 70s early 80s where the earth was insulated in green and cable was sheathed in either red or black

just saying

SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH said:

I think most here are missing the point that in domestic installs we generally use 'twin & earth' cable which is pvc/pvc with a bare  earth or cpc. We then oversleeve the bare parts at the terminations.

In Australia i believe the 'twin & earth' also has an insulated earth (i think Ireland also does now).  

In the Uk alll earths were bare untill the 14th edition (1974-6 ?) So its common to see bare cpc's  and   single earths  lying about.

Its also the norm to see what the op called singles (but actually tw&e) laying in voids, under floors and in attics here.

Click to expand...

Ok, thanx. In Australia, they use insulated earth wires including those "twin & earth" wires, where the earth wire also has a PVC insulation around it.

I grew up never seeing an uninsulated earth wires anywhere in a house, so it is a new thing for me, but I do realize now back in 70's before my time, it was a normal practice.

The only place I saw earth wire showing no skin was at the point the earth wire joins the earth pole at the ground somewhere in the house or within the vicinity of the house. 

I do realize my paranoia around bare earth wires isn't justified technically. 

Cheers

kerching said:

I  Recall using singles and earth in the late 70s early 80s where the earth was insulated in green and cable was sheathed in either red or black

just saying

Click to expand...

Yes, that's what I grew up seeing and using.  Apparently before late 70's they did use 'twin' wires with a bare earth wire inside or even bear earth wires crisscrossing the walls and the ceilings. 

Initially, it was unthinkable for me, but now I do realize it's not something to be fearful about when I began to understand how the main AC electricity works.