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Evans Electric

Mandatory testing of rental properties.

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Evans Electric

I 've been following this because I was interested in a bit of testing work each week ...not too strenuous for me old knees  don't yer know .      

Then hopes were dashed when I read that Sparks in the existing  schemes won't be allowed to do it .... they intend to create a new scheme  with "special" sparks  in it  for rental testing only.  

 

Now I see whats driving the campaign .............its led by Seeward Electronics  , backed by Graham Morris MP  who is calling for it to be debated in parliament .

So I suppose I had an invested interest in the matter , being an electrician ,  but I never imagined they would have the nerve to create yet another level of bureaucracy  and exclude all electrical contractors  who are quite capable of testing & inspecting  but obviously not in a rented house .  

 

Seeward Electronics  of course , being makers of testing instruments  would not have any invested interests.  

 

I'd write to my MP but he,s a waste of space and never answers letters , so I need to by-pass him .  Perhaps write to our ex MP  who is now in the Lords . 

Or this bloke  Morris .    

I think its outrageous that should this become mandatory , local electrical contractors  will pushed aside .   How can the firm that may have wired the damn place  not be  considered  able to test it  ...they 've already done it once .  

Edited by Evans Electric

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Murdoch

You should send a copy of any letter to the Lords or Graham Morris MP to your MP ................

 

FYI Graham Morris MP is MP for Easington which is in County Durham and Seeward Electronics is based in Peterlee ................... yes you've guessed it ....... in County Durham

 

 

Edited by Murdoch

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ProDave

The same has happened in Scotland, only it is slightly more sensible here that ordinary NICEIC / SELECT etc members can do it.

 

But since I am not a member of either, I no longer do rental EICR's   I do EICR's for other reasons e.g purchase or sale or commercial.

 

As this is currently the only thing in Scotland that actually requires you to sign up to one of the gravy trains, I am  not bothering.  As I keep saying, a little under 4 years.....    And I can see me ending up as little more than a fault fixer as my time in the trade draws to an end.

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Evans Electric
8 hours ago, Murdoch said:

FYI Graham Morris MP is MP for Easington which is in County Durham and Seeward Electronics is based in Peterlee ................... yes you've guessed it ....... in County Durham

I trust he,s not  on the board of directors there .  

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Evans Electric
7 hours ago, ProDave said:

The same has happened in Scotland, only it is slightly more sensible here that ordinary NICEIC / SELECT etc members can do it.

Thanks for that Dave , that gives me some ammunition .....actually  it gives me am atomic bomb . 

 

8 hours ago, Murdoch said:

You should send a copy of any letter to the Lords or Graham Morris MP to your MP ........

OK  Murdo ...is that just because I should include my own MP out of respect  ?    He'll ignore it anyway but I'll do that .     We are fighting the council in this constituency  over demolishing a flyover on one of Brum's main arterial routes ....( because it will look unsightly when we host the Commonwealth Games  )   .  What does our MP think /say /do ...bugger all . 

 

Is there any point in me involving our ex MP  , Lord Rooker of Perry Barr ...I presume the House of Lords doesn't represent the common man in any way .?   Jeff Rooker was a excellent MP  even though he was Labour . 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Evans Electric

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Murdoch
On 26/06/2019 at 16:24, Evans Electric said:

OK  Murdo ...is that just because I should include my own MP out of respect  ?    He'll ignore it anyway but I'll do that .     We are fighting the council in this constituency  over demolishing a flyover on one of Brum's main arterial routes ....( because it will look unsightly when we host the Commonwealth Games  )   .  What does our MP think /say /do ...bugger all . 

 

Is there any point in me involving our ex MP  , Lord Rooker of Perry Barr ...I presume the House of Lords doesn't represent the common man in any way .?   Jeff Rooker was a excellent MP  even though he was Labour . 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, send him a copy .... then he’s been involved. Nothing worse than somebody else asking him about a letter from you and him not knowing about it.

 

a few years ago, i wrote to our MP .... just before the local elections, and on voting day our doorbell rang and it was our MP ....... when I thanked him for personally visiting me to answer my letter, the look of sheer horror on his face was so funny .....

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Jono Pashley
On 26/06/2019 at 00:33, Evans Electric said:

I 've been following this because I was interested in a bit of testing work each week ...not too strenuous for me old knees  don't yer know .      

Then hopes were dashed when I read that Sparks in the existing  schemes won't be allowed to do it .... they intend to create a new scheme  with "special" sparks  in it  for rental testing only.  

 

Now I see whats driving the campaign .............its led by Seeward Electronics  , backed by Graham Morris MP  who is calling for it to be debated in parliament .

So I suppose I had an invested interest in the matter , being an electrician ,  but I never imagined they would have the nerve to create yet another level of bureaucracy  and exclude all electrical contractors  who are quite capable of testing & inspecting  but obviously not in a rented house .  

 

Seeward Electronics  of course , being makers of testing instruments  would not have any invested interests.  

 

I'd write to my MP but he,s a waste of space and never answers letters , so I need to by-pass him .  Perhaps write to our ex MP  who is now in the Lords . 

Or this bloke  Morris .    

I think its outrageous that should this become mandatory , local electrical contractors  will pushed aside .   How can the firm that may have wired the damn place  not be  considered  able to test it  ...they 've already done it once .  

 

From what NAPIT are saying if your already assessed to carry out EICRs you will carry on as normal, people who aren't such as NIC Domestic installer/Elecsa will either have to go Approved contractor or join another scheme. Alot of disinformation being spread around lately just like the rumours that AMD1 was coming out this year and that all your testers would be useless as we would have to do Power Quality Analysis.

 

At a very minimum this will enforce people carrying out these inspections to have valid PI insurance of an appropriate level. 

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Sharpend

Napit have always allowed their members to carry out EICR’s, it’s be a bit of false advertising if they didn’t given they are the association of professional inspectors and testers. !!!

it was always the case that the niceic wouldn’t allow their DI’s to do eicr’s as it wouldn’t differentiate between being an approved contractor or domestic contractor yet approved contractors are robbed of more money, for what extra advantage?? 

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Evans Electric

So , as an ELECSA ,   DI.    I shouldn't be doing EICRs   are you saying ?      I only joined so I could do house bashing & sign off , my normal work was Industrial & commercial.   

I've been doing them for years  :C    

What is the difference  , as in testing for  an electrical Installation  Cert  and  testing for an EICR  ?   

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kerching
9 hours ago, Evans Electric said:

What is the difference  , as in testing for  an electrical Installation  Cert  and  testing for an EICR  ?  

🍾 🚂 ££££££££££

 

simples

 

nb.   Cannot find a gravy emoji so,went for Champagnes as the gravy is used to purchase that lifestyle anyway

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Geoff1946

I honestly believe that there is a deliberate policy of job creation through additional government regulation.  Look at driving licencing. When I took my driving test around 1964 I was then OK to drive more or less anything except the larger wagons or public transport buses. Those required extra instruction and test. 

Now, extra tests are needed to tow a medium sized trailer caravan, or the larger motorcaravans, drive a minibus, a medium size goods vehicle, etc.

There is a DVLA centre near here, and I observe a whole industry of specialised driving schools and examiners at work. Great for employment statistics, but expensive for the repeatedly milked public.

I am sure similar job creation can be found in other fields too.

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kerching

Took my test in '74

i seem to recall my licence stated I could drive a Hearse and a Track laying vehicle also!

no mention of it now

but i believe I Can still drive a 7.5 tonner towing a trailer!

 

 

....on a tangent, when did they do away with the signs at beginning of motorway that said NO Mopeds, Invalid Carriages, L drivers etc?

Edited by kerching

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Evans Electric
1 hour ago, Geoff1946 said:

I honestly believe that there is a deliberate policy of job creation through additional government regulation. 

The more I see these days , the more  I think you're right .      

It seems obvious to me  , first of all we can all earn a fortune sitting on the  " Electrical testing  of Rental Properties"  committee.    Waffle about it for a couple of years ...when all they need do is follow the Scottish method .

 

The whole thing stinks for me .....  lets break it down  using Dekelogic :-

1)   Rental properties should have elects tested every 5 yrs .                                                      Yes  Good idea .

2)  How does Gas testing work ?   They go to a local Gas Safe contractor .                          Yes     Good Idea.

3)  How should the electric testing work ?      Go to a local registered contractor.                Yes    Good Idea        

4) How did Scotland do it ?                                    They went to a local contractor .                     Yes    Good Idea.

 

5)   How should England  do it  ?                            Just the same .                                                       Yes Good Idea 

 

Meeting one over , everyone down the pub , problem solved  .                                                       Yes Good Idea . 

 

How are we REALLY doing it ?    We'll create yet another money making scheme and insist all testing is done by some sort of elite  squad  of highly trained electrical engineers and charge a fortune for testing  and ignore the fact that electricians are testing  installations every day as a normal part of their job .   

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ProDave

You are thinking of slowing down a bit Deke?

 

So don't renew the old  Napit or whatever.  Instead sign up to this new testing scheme and only that.

 

You will be in high demand as all rentals will need a test and a lot of sparks won't bother feeding the new gravy train.

 

Of course you won't be allowed to fix any faults you find. you will be like a Kwik Fit MOT test where you can fail it and they then have to go to someone else to get it put right.

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Evans Electric
3 hours ago, ProDave said:

Of course you won't be allowed to fix any faults you find. you will be like a Kwik Fit MOT test where you can fail it and they then have to go to someone else to get it put right.

And that Dave ,   sums up the whole nonsense of it  a treat  ...........  I have to pay Scam No1  to  be allowed to carry out the tests ...and pay Scam No2  for the pleasure of putting any faults right  .     

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Murdoch
10 hours ago, Evans Electric said:

And that Dave ,   sums up the whole nonsense of it  a treat  ...........  I have to pay Scam No1  to  be allowed to carry out the tests ...and pay Scam No2  for the pleasure of putting any faults right  .     

 

You would only need scheme 2 if it was notifiable ...

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Uplandsjack
18 hours ago, kerching said:

Took my test in '74

i seem to recall my licence stated I could drive a Hearse and a Track laying vehicle also!

no mention of it now

but i believe I Can still drive a 7.5 tonner towing a trailer!

 

 

....on a tangent, when did they do away with the signs at beginning of motorway that said NO Mopeds, Invalid Carriages, L drivers etc?

Haven't noticed those signs have been removed if honest. But as point of fact as of last year L drivers can now drive on motorways as long as they are accompanied by a qualified driving instructor.... 👍

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Jono Pashley
On 28/06/2019 at 23:47, Evans Electric said:

So , as an ELECSA ,   DI.    I shouldn't be doing EICRs   are you saying ?      I only joined so I could do house bashing & sign off , my normal work was Industrial & commercial.   

I've been doing them for years  :C    

What is the difference  , as in testing for  an electrical Installation  Cert  and  testing for an EICR  ?   

http://www.elecsa.co.uk/Householders/FAQs/test-FAQ-1.aspx

 

You can do them but you are not assessed by your scheme to carry them out and should not use their logo on any forms related to it. 

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Evans Electric
1 hour ago, Jono Pashley said:

You can do them but you are not assessed by your scheme to carry them out and should not use their logo on any forms related to it. 

Ooops ...they sold me the cert books though , didn't they !

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Jono Pashley

They wont/shouldnt have their logo on. You certainly cant buy elecsa branded forms from the Certsure store only NIC AC and ECA for EICR forms.

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Sharpend
20 hours ago, Evans Electric said:

And that Dave ,   sums up the whole nonsense of it  a treat  ...........  I have to pay Scam No1  to  be allowed to carry out the tests ...and pay Scam No2  for the pleasure of putting any faults right  .     

 

These scams aside, iirc isn’t the whole point of doing the C&G electrical installation courses and associated NVQ to train you to be a competent spark capable of not only installing, but remedying and testing, thus all those with the correct electrical installation qualifications should be exempt from requiring further auditing/scheme membership? 

Do those that do the electrical maintenance C&G courses have to be registered and learn to hoop jump to do their work? Or are they exempt as they learned maintenance of installations??? 

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Evans Electric
34 minutes ago, Jono Pashley said:

They wont/shouldnt have their logo on. You certainly cant buy elecsa branded forms from the Certsure store only NIC AC and ECA for EICR forms

Just checking ..and you 're correct Jono  .. they are in fact , generic forms ,  I'd not really noticed. 

 

2 minutes ago, Sharpend said:

These scams aside, iirc isn’t the whole point of doing the C&G electrical installation courses and associated NVQ to train you to be a competent spark capable of not only installing, but remedying and testing, thus all those with the correct electrical installation qualifications should be exempt from requiring further auditing/scheme membership? 

Do those that do the electrical maintenance C&G courses have to be registered and learn to hoop jump to do their work? Or are they exempt as they learned maintenance of installations??? 

Well I thought ..when the Pert P scams were announced , that  I ,as a time served apprentice  , with many years experience  in industrial , commercial  , maintenance & Domestic  installation  , overhead crane maintenance /panel building ,  Site  Foreman for years ,  JIB Approved Electrician , Supervisor , estimator ..........that I'd be qualified for house bashing ...... but apparently not .      The same for a colleague    , once an apprentice with us ,  left us behind with all his qualifications  etc  as a project designer / engineer  with NHS  ...but not qualified to wire a light in a house. :C 

 

Sharpy , maintenance sparks I,ve come across over the years ,  a lot good at what they do ,    but are way behind the likes of  , say , us self employed guys who, mostly, are well  on top of the game in comparison .

 

And  a similar situation with guys working for the bigger contractors ,  some  constantly on 1st fix ,  miles of tray , conduit etc  but never see a job through to the end .

Hence my stories of the guys we had as subbies   ,  arguing  until blue in the face   about stuff like  30A  /30mA  RCDs  will trip on a 30A overload   and neutrals can't pass through conduit boxes etc.   

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Tony S

You have a bizarre out look on life, Deke.

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Evans Electric

I know . :C 

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Tony S
13 hours ago, Evans Electric said:

 

Sharpy , maintenance sparks I,ve come across over the years ,  a lot good at what they do ,    but are way behind the likes of  , say , us self employed guys who, mostly, are well  on top of the game in comparison .

 

 

This statement clearly shows a total lack of knowledge of the role of an industrial electrician and yet strangely you list “industrial” in you’re skill set. Industrial installation (which I assume is what you’ve done) is far removed from commissioning, maintenance and repair.

 

BTW, do you know what punctuation is?

 

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