Any opinions on this ?

[Evans Electric]

I have a customer who needs a board change , shower connected with upstairs ring etc .   the good old  6 way Wylex  with 900 cables in it , nearest RCD  about 5 miles away .

Single parent , not well off .  So I have  an "as new" Plastic Control Gear board , loaded   , dual RCD  that will fit in their meter cupboard which is a lot bigger than what we fit today . 

Board will be outside  in meter cupboard so I shall be fitting it anyway .  Doubtless  there will be various opinions  but its a budget job and a lot safer than to walk away . 

I fitted this board  elsewhere about five years ago and consequently, due to new plans,   moved all the electrics  , fitted a metal one  & didn't have the heart to chuck  this in the bin .  

 

[Sidewinder]

Just do it, it's not in the property, can the fire transfer into the property if the board catches alight?

I doubt it, so it's not an issue.

 

[Murdoch]

Brave man posting this.

so we can’t install plastic cu’s in homes , yet the DNOs install plastic housed isolation switches inside homes ....

your outline means it will be outside

 

[ProDave]

A vote for common sense, do it.

Doubtless someone will be along to tell you the house will instantly burn down and Deke will be in the can.

 

[Evans Electric]

Thanks  I'm doing it anyway  but interested in any reaction .  

Comparison :- 

Existing ---   old 6 way wooden frame Wylex  crammed with additional circuits ,  rewireable   BS 3036 .

Proposed ----  almost new , dual RCD board  10 way PVC  .  

 

[Sharpend]

You might need to line the board with a fire proof putty just to keep the electric police satisfied!!!!! 

 

[NozSpark]

like they say,, just do it..... especially if the meter cabinet is made of non-flammable material

 

[Telectrix]

just put it on the cert. as a deviation, with the reason that being in an outside meter box, a metal CU would be liable to corrosion.

 

[binky]

the only requirement for metal boards is where a fire would compromise a fire escape route. That translates in most houses basically as hallways, and understairs cupboards that aren't fire proofed. So a CU in a kitchen could be non-metal, like wise a CU in a garage

 

[ProDave]

the only requirement for metal boards is where a fire would compromise a fire escape route. That translates in most houses basically as hallways, and understairs cupboards that aren't fire proofed. So a CU in a kitchen could be non-metal, like wise a CU in a garage

So in a utility room that leads nowhere (so is only a fire escape if you happen to be in the utility room) is still okay for plastic then?

 

[binky]

in my opinion yes.

 

[Murdoch]

Irrespective of location inside a domestic dwelling i wouldn't fit a plastic cu ...

 

[Sidewinder]

You shouldn't really put a plastic CU, inside a domestic premises.

IF it were to catch fire, then it would set the building alight.

If the utility room was 30 minute fire retardant, with suitable doors then you could argue that it is a suitable compartment, but, you would also have to ensure that any penetrations through the walls, ceiling and floor retained the fire compartment properties.

 

[binky]

shouldn't install tumble driers either then - they catch fire far more often than boards. 

I've installed hundreds of boards, oddly enough none have caught fire yet, plus most makes were made with fire-retardent plastics, as they were suppossed to be in the first place.

Now, boards are suppossed to be mounted in a place without junk piles around them, most household walls are plasterboard or plastered brick / breeze block, especially in places like utility rooms. These materials have at least 30 min rating anyway - general building regs, so not much danger of setting fire to them. Now I've been trying to find the original guidelines that had pretty pictures of hallways etc etc, but if I remember correctly the requiremnt was for 'non-combustible' boards in higher risk areas which form a fire escape. I wouldn't disagree that old victorian understair cupboards or lather and plaster walls definetly need metal boards, but in other parts of the building, I'm not convinced that the orignal guidelines actually required a metal board. As per most things these days, the requirement has been over-inflated to cover arses! 

As it happens it's almost impossible to get a non-metal board, so there isn't much choice except perhaps for smaller IP rated enclosures suitable for a garage or outhouse, so it's a bit of a non-argument anyway. BUT in the circumstances stated by Evans above, I don't have a problem with re-using a non-metal board.

Also, many sparks to make life easy, knock out all the knock outs in a metal board and fit PVC trunking with no fire retardency to make cable access easier directly adjacent to said board - thereby defeating the  whole object of the metal board exercise. 

 

[Evans Electric]

I agree with Binky  , it all gets over inflated , change the reg . and everyone starts thinking all the PVC , flame retardant boards will be bursting into flames yet we still have plastic switches , sockets , cooker switches , pendants  , incomer cut-outs ,  Henley Blocks  and  100A  DP  isolators . 

I was called out to a PVC  board last year , caller  reported smell of burning , fizzing noise , electrics flickering .         Tenant had  decided to fit some "posh"  switches /plugs  so ,  although he wouldn't admit it ,  he'd switched the main switch off to do it  then switched it back on only half way  , leaving it arcing all night .  

Although there were signs of scorching on the switch it had not burst into flames  although it was red hot to touch  & had damaged a few inches of  meter tails . 

I hear comments in the wholesalers from perhaps younger sparks like ,  " I think that  job should be rewired , its  that old red & black stuff"   :C   

 

[Sidewinder]

shouldn't install tumble driers either then - they catch fire far more often than boards. 

I've installed hundreds of boards, oddly enough none have caught fire yet, plus most makes were made with fire-retardent plastics, as they were suppossed to be in the first place.

Now, boards are suppossed to be mounted in a place without junk piles around them, most household walls are plasterboard or plastered brick / breeze block, especially in places like utility rooms. These materials have at least 30 min rating anyway - general building regs, so not much danger of setting fire to them. Now I've been trying to find the original guidelines that had pretty pictures of hallways etc etc, but if I remember correctly the requiremnt was for 'non-combustible' boards in higher risk areas which form a fire escape. I wouldn't disagree that old victorian understair cupboards or lather and plaster walls definetly need metal boards, but in other parts of the building, I'm not convinced that the orignal guidelines actually required a metal board. As per most things these days, the requirement has been over-inflated to cover arses! 

As it happens it's almost impossible to get a non-metal board, so there isn't much choice except perhaps for smaller IP rated enclosures suitable for a garage or outhouse, so it's a bit of a non-argument anyway. BUT in the circumstances stated by Evans above, I don't have a problem with re-using a non-metal board.

Also, many sparks to make life easy, knock out all the knock outs in a metal board and fit PVC trunking with no fire retardency to make cable access easier directly adjacent to said board - thereby defeating the  whole object of the metal board exercise. 

The issue is Binky that the materials were not fire retardant, as it is cheaper to make them without, and I'm not sure that it is a requirement in the standards believe it or not.

Though I would have to check to be sure.

The requirement still does not require a metal board, it requires a board made from non-combustible material, and the term non-combustible is paralleled in construction regulations.

The issue is that BEAMA decided on steel, so their members followed suit.

This is not a bad thing as steel is infinitely recyclable.

Now IIRC the trunking standard does require that it is fire retardant.

Again though, to be honest I would have to check to be sure.

 

[binky]

The issue is Binky that the materials were not fire retardant, as it is cheaper to make them without, and I'm not sure that it is a requirement in the standards believe it or not.

Though I would have to check to be sure.

Pretty sure the standards were for fire retardancy, there was a fella on here and other fourms who was fighting a court case based on the fact the board he had fitted failed to retard a fire and he was accused of poor workmanship. Never heard the result as he was paid to keep quiet in the end.  What he did do though was produce a video showing how many different makes of board failed the fire retardent test.

PS I wouldn't re-fit a Volex ....

 

[Sidewinder]

I think that it was Hager that overwhelmed the extract system upon testing!

If I'm wrong I think another member will remind us soon.