Bathroom Electrics, 240V Non Ip Downlights.

[jordan84]

Hi,

I have recently had a bathroom installed my a company, they carried out all of the work themselfs, with the only exception being that they brought in a tiler.

After speaking to an electrician at my work, he highlighted that I should have received a minor works certificate for the altering of the lighting in the bathroom. I originally had 2 spotlights, and now I have 4.

I then asked about the zones of a bathroom, and he informed me that the light directly above the shower cubicle should be a low voltage  IP rated unit, and depending on the distances to other lights from the shower then they might have to be aswell. I told him that I had 240v non IP rated lights fitted, to which he said I should phone up the company and have them rectify the issue.

All I am looking for on here is a second opinion before I contact the company, definately not doubting the guy, as he is quite experienced, just looking for different opinions on the issue.

I can take and upload pictures if required.

thanks

 

[Manator]

Bathrooms are broken into Zones, I do not do domestic work so I may be a little behind what the exact regulations are. Needless to say that anything installed within a bathroom must be IP rated. 240v fittings can be installed within Zone one providing they are suitable, but from this forum I see that low voltage fittings are preferred and suitably IP rated.

You should always get a certificate for any works done in your home. If you have not been given one then the chances are that you have been done over by a person who is not registered for domestic works. All registered electricians will provide a certificate for works they carry out.

Go back to the installer and insist on receiving Part P approval.

 

[Sidewinder]

Hello jordan84,

From your post I would say that your spark at work is pretty much correct.

 

[binky]

Zones extend to the ceiling, so there's always an argument that the 240V bit is actually out of the zone being above the ceiling. However, all fittings need to be suitable for the environment, so anything not IP rated isn't really suitable because of steam, hence we stopped fitting ordinary pendants many years ago, especially directly above the shower itself. I would be inclined to have a look at he quailty of the connections aswell ie. they haven't been done with a bit of connector block. I would also check were the bathroom fan exhausts to if you have a ceiling mounted unit ie it isn't pumping steam into the attic and has been vented to the outside world - seen a few bathroom companies do that!

 

[jordan84]

Thanks for the replies, I was pretty sure the spark was correct as he has been doing it for a good few years and is pretty clued up, just wanted to see if there was another angle on it at all.

The connectors appear to be in connector block, with some black tape wrapped around it, what would you reccomend they are connected in, would a chock box be suitable?

I dont have a fan fitted, so thats one less thing to have an issue with.

Is there any links or information that I could forward to them, which backs me up if they start being awkward?

thanks

 

[NozSpark]

Hi Jordan,

There are 3 zones within a room containing a bath or shower

Zone 0 is within the basin of the bath or shower

Zone 1 is directly above the shower or bath up to 2250mm above the finished floor level

Zone 2 is an area extending 600mm around the bath or shower up to a height of 2250mm above the finished floor level

As they are an area of high risk there are more stringent regulations as to what can go where...

Basically...

All circuits within the bathroom require RCD protection

Only fixed loads within zones..

There are no regs that require you to have SELV lighting (I assume you mean 12V lighting - anything under 1000V is classed as low voltage) within a bathroom any more, some times it may be prudent but generally they are not required.

IP rated lights will be required by the building regs as you are not allowed to have moist air venting into the loft space (its obviously not good for the insulation or rafters)

And here's the kicker.... Only new work has to comply with the current regulations, however you may need to add supplementary bonding between new RCD protected work and existing wiring that isn't RCD protected

CERTIFICATES and Part P notification should have been issued (maybe not Part P if you're in England, Scotland or N Ireland)

 

[jordan84]

Hi NozSpark,

I have just measured from the floor to ceiling and it is 2310mm would I still be within my rights to contact the company and request that they install ip rated lights in place of the current ones, and just to clarify, it would be all 4 lights in the bathroom that would be required to be IP rated.

thanks

 

[NozSpark]

Yes, building regs are law, electrical regs arent

 

[Andy™]

if tis above 2.25mtr from floor, then they do not have to be IP rated (although i will only fit IPx4 at least).

connectors wrapped in tape definitely doesnt comply

 

[OnOff]

if tis above 2.25mtr from floor, then they do not have to be IP rated (although i will only fit IPx4 at least).

connectors wrapped in tape definitely doesnt comply

+1 

Did the people who came up with that 2.25m business never realise how far/high a power shower head will project water wielded by a 15 year old who doesn't care what gets wet? They should come look at our bathroom!  :lol:

 

[NozSpark]

Its not just splashes of water that you need to protect them from,,, you also have to stop steam entering the loft space

If the contractor has fitted halogen lamps then they might have also not complied with Part L

 

[Andy™]

but he never said the bathroom was upstairs... likely, but not always

+1 

Did the people who came up with that 2.25m business never realise how far/high a power shower head will project water wielded by a 15 year old who doesn't care what gets wet? They should come look at our bathroom!  :lol:

no idea. always did seem a bit odd being 2.25 from the floor, not from the bottom of the bath

 

[kme]

No fan might also be a building regulation non-compliance - although, by the sounds of it, they`re not the sort of company to care.

I would in the first instance, ask for a minor works certificate, and a building regulations compliance certificate - they MUST give you these.

If they provide them both, then they`ve fraudulently had the BRCC provided - as they will have told building control that their work complies.

You really NEED this bit of paper - YOU can be liable for a fine ( technically), as the notifiable work has not been notified.

 

[pewter]

I think the 2.25 is out of arms reach.

If its not in the zone then it does not have to be IP rated.

Fittings have to be suitable for there environment so if it does get steamy in there IP rated fittings would be more suitable.

I read   part-f   7.23       - work on an existing bathroom does not need a fan if it never had one before.

I agree should have minor works certificate. The electrical work is outside the zone so it does not need notification from building control for part-p.

 

[pewter]

(before the arguments start. Part-p document 2.6 diagram 2   illustrates that only work done within zone 0,1,2 is notifiable, outside the zones is NOT notifiable if its an addition or alteration)

 

[Blue Duck]

Had a very arrogant & nasty customer who wanted a heat n light in the bathroom but the ceiling was 2.23m high

Sounds like you've had the bandits in! are they big company or a couple of blokes standing outside wickes?

 

[Andy™]

If they provide them both, then they`ve fraudulently had the BRCC provided - as they will have told building control that their work complies.

You really NEED this bit of paper - YOU can be liable for a fine ( technically), as the notifiable work has not been notified.

not anymore. only notifiable if its in any of the zones. but iirc it was only changed in england, not wales?

 

[binky]

Fittings have to be suitable for there environment so if it does get steamy in there IP rated fittings would be more suitable.

this is the actual reason for IP rating - it's more a building regs requirement than electrical.

In my opinion, any company doing bathrooms all the time should be very aware of this.

 

[NozSpark]

not anymore. only notifiable if its in any of the zones. but iirc it was only changed in england, not wales?

Yes,,, part P didn't get watered down in Wales.... and doesn't even exist in Scotland and N Ireland

 

[pewter]

this is the actual reason for IP rating - it's more a building regs requirement than electrical.

In my opinion, any company doing bathrooms all the time should be very aware of this.

Is there a building regulation about a steamy room?

Top entry of accessories should be IP4X anywhere.

Within the special location (zones 1,2,3) items do need better IP ratings.

The OP's room is 2310mm tall so out of the special location.

I agree it would be better to have a fitting with greater IP rating for protection. But the company who installed it has not broken any rules fitting a regular fitting. They should have supplied a minor works cert though.